This is the conflicting part of the ending DST change. Like many I absolutely hate getting off work in the dark, but making that permanent means waking up in the dark which might suck too. Which is worse? Genuinely not sure.
We need to stop putting people in office buildings or force them to work from home for 8 hours a day. Even pre-AI productivity gains should've shortened working hours, instead it mainly lined the pockets of people at the top.
Giving people more time off work solves so many issues: it gives people more time to live healthy, take care of kids and just have more fun in the short time we have in life.
Instead tech executives believe the working day should be increased to 12 hours.
the world finally realizes that 1 in 4 people are actually saying the truth, not being lazy
I recently started a new job that forced me to wake up at 6:30AM and it was fucking misery. last weekend though was the DST change, effectively shifting everything one hour forward and oh god I finally feel alive and capable of doing anything but sleeping
I am so sick or "normal" types whose only argument is that "it's like that". Of course you can't wake up in the morning because you go to sleep late. How come even when I skip a night I still can't sleep Einstein? And this normalness only lasts until their own thing that is not the same as the society.
I've started using SAD-lamps for this exact reason. I've used it every day from october-april for 2 years and it has benefitted me a lot. I don't feel as bad through winter anymore.
It's quite literally kaamosmasennus as we Finns call it.
Merely losing the sun behind cloud cover for an extended period of time seems to have an effect if not the quite gradual but rapid shortening of available daylight. When the weather reports start including how gray it is today, you know it's the season again.
Increasing your vitamin D3/D6 dosage and being exposed to bright blue light daily helps most people to get through the winter.
Vitamin D has helped me as well as many of my immigrant friends tremendously when we moved from South Asia to Canada. Been taking 5000 IU for 15 years.
It's not surprising to self diagnose with every new type of neuro issue of course (in the hopes that it will lead to some relief) but I do "like" this for myself. I refused the melatonin recently because it didn't do anything for me the last time but maybe I will try it again.
I've found I prefer time release melatonin as personally I can fall asleep initially but often wake up in a few hours and then can't get back to sleep.
Some other melatonin sleep aids give me the most vivid nightmares, so I definitely think it can be worth trying a couple different options.
Huh this kind of resonates with me. In high school I used to be chronically tired and would sleep any chance I got. Doctor really didn't know what to do with it. As a student I have little time constraints and my sleep schedule just drifts all over the place, I woke up at 4am today.
Same here, I'm so awake after 10... But my kids get up at 6-7 in the morning so I need to change my sleep schedule. Also, everything is designed for early risers, breakfast in hotel, from 6-9. But when I'm on vacation, I sleep till 9.
Same with work, getting to the office at 7 is fine, at 10 is frowned upon.
What helps is circadian lighting, I have homeassistant and it changes the color temperature of my ikea smart lights to yellow in the evening, and white during the day. The yellow lights prepare me for the sleep.
Check out the video in the article, specifically from minute 2:50 onward, where the presenter asks Ian Hickie (co-author of the study) what other treatments (besides medication) people should try. He answers that treatments that focus on thoughts and feelings are "also less effective" and recommends getting sunlight, getting out during the day and being physically active
Perhaps you should try Ian's advice? Sounds like you've some frustrations to deal with
I spent a year not having any responsibilities. My sleep shifted, and was 04:00 - 13:00. My dream is to retire so that I can finally fucking sleep the way I want.
I've been somewhat of a nightowl my entire life.
I thought that was just how i was and it was in my genetics. There's also some correlation with adhd there according to some studies.
However i managed to be a morning person without strain when i wasn't working for a while and decided to focus on not letting too much light in my eyes in the evening, didn't drink much coffee and went for morning jogs.
It felt like without strain i woke up automatically in the morning and was a real eyeopener.
Sadly it's still a modern society issues feels hard to avoid screens when i have to work and do so much else during the day. Also big seasonal light changes at this lattitude means morning jogs would be in the dark right now if they have to precede work.
I think for 99% of working age adults you can source some amount of their health woes to the working pattern they're glued to. It is obvious for those on the night shift because it's so standout, but every person becomes a slightly more haggard version of themselves when they're doing 40 hours a week and it's only noticeable to those around them and only when they've spent some time out of work.
I'll go even further, I started taking a medication for an unrelated cause (should not affect sleep/wake) and I now wake up bolt awake at 7:30am every day whether I like it or not. Historically I was someone who struggled with being awake before 10am. I have no idea why the shift happened, it's very confusing, but it was like a bolt of lightning reset my sleep schedule almost overnight.
For me it is 4am. No matter what time I go to sleep, I will wake up at 4am. I can go back to sleep, but I am up at 4am to at least check my watch.
My cause: Basic training. Spend a few months waking up in a panic at 0400 and that time gets ingrained. I never had an issue before joining the military and now, more than decade later, it remains like a scar on my brain.
Similar, though I just stopped with caffeine after 8 pm, went to bed when I got tired and limited any bedtime phone use strictly to a Sudoku app (the mental effort made me sleepy).
I had been a night owl since a teen, and yet here I was waking up naturally at around 7 am feeling refreshed. I realized a lot of what had kept me up at night was the freedom and silence. Once I moved on my own, there was nothing to escape so to speak. So I just stopped the caffeine and stopped avoiding bed.
Also I was depressed when I was a night owl and now I’m not. As another anecdote. Old me would’ve thought I was a night owl and would’ve made a comment like OP. But I was not in a good place. I became a night owl because I let blue light change my schedule.
My wife often goes to bed shortly before I get up in the morning, and doesn’t rise until mid afternoon - exhausted, pissed off, tearful, all of it.
There’s zero pressure on her to conform to any particular day/night cycle. By the time she gets up my day is half over, the housework is done, the meals prepared, the business for the day concluded, the kid at school, who I’ll pick up later.
I used to be a night owl, but as she has become more and more nocturnal over the years, I’ve adapted to live on 5 hours of sleep and became an early riser, so I actually get to spend some time with her in the evenings, and am up and ready to deal with the day so she doesn’t have to.
So. I don’t think it’s society. Sure, it’s a sample of precisely 1, but this phenomenon seems to be largely internally driven.
No. She comes from a culture where there’s a huge stigma around mental health, and you can lead a horse to water and all that.
Right now, I’m rolling with her hypothesis that it’s purely environmental, and finish our intercontinental move next week.
Honestly, I don’t hold out hope, but at least our destination country is one with a good cultural attitude to mental health, which I’m hoping may rub off on her. And me - I come from the “keep calm and carry on” school, often to my detriment.
Breaking news: Guy on internet reduces an enlightening and constructive article to a triviality.
I'm sorry, but you did it first. I mean, being able to show correlation between variables in a formal, peer-reviewed study is something? What else do you expect scientists to do? This is how science works. You take an assumption, gather data supporting the assumption and establish facts from the assumption. You can't expect researchers to go by anecdotes and vibes when coming up with treatments, can you?
I'm a night owl since my teenage years, and have been fortunate to always work jobs that let me set my own hours, but the older I get, the more this schedule wears on me. Even night owls need some sunlight, and if one's biological schedule is the "26-hour day", the continous flux in when you get up, go to bed, and get that sun can become emotionally distressing. I definitely believe in circadian depression that is not society-imposed.
> Most available treatments for depression assume the disorder is underpinned by anxiety.
I highly doubt this is true. I have not seen any evidence for this claim. Generalized anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder are typically considered distinct.
Taking a quick look at the article, I cannot see that they rule out either correlation or (even more likely, I suspect) reverse causation? That is, that depression leads to circadian disruption. That would hardly seem surprising if so.
I live in Morocco, we've been on and off GMT+1 FOUR times every year since early 2010s. There isn't one person you'd ask who wouldn't tell you they're in a perpetual state of jet lag. Lately the previous prime minister announced daylight saving time will be scraped (not from the kindness of his heart, he's a billionaire who benefited the most from it) but he used it to draw votes for his party for the elections last month (they lost the majority).
And now a month on, and I feel so so much better, my depression is slowly disappearing and i've been on meds for 2 years tried both SSRIs and NDRIs, nothing worked. And it's not just me, lots of people are feeling in a much better place mentally.
Is he talking about me? I started having depression after university(stress, sleep deprivation and alcohol). But i started having sleep issues in high school. Which caused me to drink coffee and worsened sleep issues. Combine that with OCD, which i didn't know i had and i thought i am just anxious or crazy. What helped me was trazodone, which i suppose because it is a sedative - helpes with the sleep rythm. It makes sme sleepy around midnight and i can get 7,5-8,5 hours of sleep and wake up naturally. Still strugling to completely let go of coffee, but i cut down dramatically. but i always feel like i have the most energy from 8-12. Lots of my days are in low energy mode and only in the late evening i am fully myself.
Giving people more time off work solves so many issues: it gives people more time to live healthy, take care of kids and just have more fun in the short time we have in life.
Instead tech executives believe the working day should be increased to 12 hours.
I recently started a new job that forced me to wake up at 6:30AM and it was fucking misery. last weekend though was the DST change, effectively shifting everything one hour forward and oh god I finally feel alive and capable of doing anything but sleeping
Most if not all Norwegians know this phenomena. Winter depression is considered a normal occurrence, starting right around this time of year.
Merely losing the sun behind cloud cover for an extended period of time seems to have an effect if not the quite gradual but rapid shortening of available daylight. When the weather reports start including how gray it is today, you know it's the season again.
Increasing your vitamin D3/D6 dosage and being exposed to bright blue light daily helps most people to get through the winter.
The one thing shifts the day length and disrupts the circadian more while the other doesn't give you enough light to produce vitamin b etc.
Some other melatonin sleep aids give me the most vivid nightmares, so I definitely think it can be worth trying a couple different options.
They did not sleep in school because they were too tired, they are not highliy functional with depression.
In all seriousness, mornings are dreadful while in the evenings I feel like I can conquer the world, funny system I've got
Same with work, getting to the office at 7 is fine, at 10 is frowned upon.
What helps is circadian lighting, I have homeassistant and it changes the color temperature of my ikea smart lights to yellow in the evening, and white during the day. The yellow lights prepare me for the sleep.
Check out the video in the article, specifically from minute 2:50 onward, where the presenter asks Ian Hickie (co-author of the study) what other treatments (besides medication) people should try. He answers that treatments that focus on thoughts and feelings are "also less effective" and recommends getting sunlight, getting out during the day and being physically active
Perhaps you should try Ian's advice? Sounds like you've some frustrations to deal with
I've been somewhat of a nightowl my entire life. I thought that was just how i was and it was in my genetics. There's also some correlation with adhd there according to some studies.
However i managed to be a morning person without strain when i wasn't working for a while and decided to focus on not letting too much light in my eyes in the evening, didn't drink much coffee and went for morning jogs.
It felt like without strain i woke up automatically in the morning and was a real eyeopener.
Sadly it's still a modern society issues feels hard to avoid screens when i have to work and do so much else during the day. Also big seasonal light changes at this lattitude means morning jogs would be in the dark right now if they have to precede work.
My cause: Basic training. Spend a few months waking up in a panic at 0400 and that time gets ingrained. I never had an issue before joining the military and now, more than decade later, it remains like a scar on my brain.
I had been a night owl since a teen, and yet here I was waking up naturally at around 7 am feeling refreshed. I realized a lot of what had kept me up at night was the freedom and silence. Once I moved on my own, there was nothing to escape so to speak. So I just stopped the caffeine and stopped avoiding bed.
My wife often goes to bed shortly before I get up in the morning, and doesn’t rise until mid afternoon - exhausted, pissed off, tearful, all of it.
There’s zero pressure on her to conform to any particular day/night cycle. By the time she gets up my day is half over, the housework is done, the meals prepared, the business for the day concluded, the kid at school, who I’ll pick up later.
I used to be a night owl, but as she has become more and more nocturnal over the years, I’ve adapted to live on 5 hours of sleep and became an early riser, so I actually get to spend some time with her in the evenings, and am up and ready to deal with the day so she doesn’t have to.
So. I don’t think it’s society. Sure, it’s a sample of precisely 1, but this phenomenon seems to be largely internally driven.
Right now, I’m rolling with her hypothesis that it’s purely environmental, and finish our intercontinental move next week.
Honestly, I don’t hold out hope, but at least our destination country is one with a good cultural attitude to mental health, which I’m hoping may rub off on her. And me - I come from the “keep calm and carry on” school, often to my detriment.
No one pushes her, she has troubles sleeping, you let her sleep, you do the household etc.
Tbh. doesn't sound healthy at all.
I'm sorry, but you did it first. I mean, being able to show correlation between variables in a formal, peer-reviewed study is something? What else do you expect scientists to do? This is how science works. You take an assumption, gather data supporting the assumption and establish facts from the assumption. You can't expect researchers to go by anecdotes and vibes when coming up with treatments, can you?
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...
I highly doubt this is true. I have not seen any evidence for this claim. Generalized anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder are typically considered distinct.
As a doctor I would say this is incorrect.
And now a month on, and I feel so so much better, my depression is slowly disappearing and i've been on meds for 2 years tried both SSRIs and NDRIs, nothing worked. And it's not just me, lots of people are feeling in a much better place mentally.