Elon bought a dead social network and look at him go! But seriously, I log into paypal once a month to pay my landlord. I am a MAU. That is crazy. It’s more then I can say for ABNB. Maybe they should buy Paypal. Save on those transaction fees.
The social network is more dead than when he bought it. Wouldn’t need the an acquisition first by an ai company and then a space company to hide its worth.
I wish Twitter had been dead when Elon bought it, but no, Twitter was far from dead. X actually has fewer MAU as far as I can tell[1], and I wouldn’t call it dead either.
[1]: Seriously though, I can’t find good data I trust on this so correct me if you’ve got a good source saying otherwise, or even if someone has something substantiating this better I would take that too.
Yes it's basically every website in Australia you can pay via PayPal now. I use it less and less since Apple Pay is available pretty much everywhere, but it can still be handy now and then.
The other consistently supported thing is card numbers. I generate virtual card numbers for every merchant, no need for some suspicious interloper. For non-recurring or one-off transactions -- new virtual card for each purchase.
Sometimes it's the other way around. Lockers for packages were first introduced in Germany (Packstation) then they were rolled out in the US almost a decade later.
Not having a lot of credit cards and the associated rewards is actually healthy. Research has shown lower social classes "pay" for the rewards due to paying the higher transaction fees. There was actually a relevant thread here a few days ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49432201 (How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer)
PayPal is, unfortunately, not dead. It's used by RMV in Germany for a start - only way to pay for a bus ticket in the app/website. No credit or debit card, straight up PayPal account.
PayPal originally took off as it was convenient and fast, saving you from filling in card details each time and it also allowed sending payments for private transactions using only an email address
Since then Apple Pay/Google pay/browser wallets have taken a big chunk of its fast checkout advantage
And mobile banking apps/instant transfer have taken out chunks of the private transactions, and more so as consumer to consumer transactions often had the parties using PayPal gift mode to avoid fees but that then had zero protection.
The 2020’s is much more crowded than 1990’s and 2020’s decades
Also it was its partnership with eBay that made it dominant and eBay no longer promote PayPal as preferred payment method.
PayPal also allowed internet payments without requiring handing over credit card details to a third party. Handing your credit card number to every two-but e-commerce site pretty much guaranteed your card would be compromised. Today PCI requirements and tokenization reduce the risks substantially and Apple Pay and Google Pay add another layer of protection.
That estimates PayPal still has 40%+ online payment market share.
I'm assuming a lot of that is long-tail 'I put a PayPal link on my store in 2005' stuff, but I imagine those add up.
And they're also probably a sticky customer base, in the sense that anyone still using PayPal as primary today doesn't like changing things, which makes acquiring those customers worth it.
I honestly wish they could've succeeded because PayPal is one of the banes of my existence. They're one of those faceless corporations that accuse everyone of money laundering in order to steal their shit.
They held and stole quite a bit of money from my company when it was small 'for fraud'; it was a very hard time, and of course there was no fraud. It was a long time ago and I don't get angry anymore, but it was a nightmare and nothing you can do. Since then I moved to local processing, issuing, acquiring; I can thank Paypal for all of that. Hope they die a miserable death, but I guess 50B$ says at least the managers will drive their lambo's/yachts around no matter what happens unfortunately.
Suing over borders. Did I mention small company? What would it cost me, in 2007, to sue a US company from my country in europe? With what chance of winning?
Still not in my own country; I see they were in the UK back then; suing over borders inside the EU is still expensive and pretty much advised against unless it's a lot of money. It was for us, but not compared to this effort; anyway ; it was advised against back then. Maybe now it's easier.
It would be small claims court and they are being sued so much, that they don't even bother to show up in trials (courts are expensive goes both ways), so it is default win usually.
I am not sure about the year 2007, but in 2026, they need to be under your monetary authority somehow. That's why most crypto exchanges do not offer service in Europe. Your monetary authority might have a form or an email for complaint and depending on how pro-active they are, they can make the other counter-party very proactive.
Paypal stole over $10k from a Haitian charity drive we did. They froze the account and all the donations, then refused to refund people and offered "Donate to our charity instead" as an option.
PayPal is still the default processor in so many places. That's got to be worth something. Every other time I buy something online, PayPal is the default option.
Can folks responding to this comment claiming that they see PayPal a lot provide some details? Country, industry, sector, something. I'm in the US and I basically never see it on e commerce checkout flows any more (and good riddance IMO).
Yeah this is my primary use case for using PayPal. I use it on e-commerce sites for first purchase or if it's unlikely I'm going to buy anything from the same site again.
I don't see it as much as before but recently I had issues with paying z.ai with my card and the only payment alternative they have is PayPal. PayPal now requires an account with a verified phone number just to process your payment, so it's strictly a no-go for me.
I am guessing the millions of people they have on-boarded in the last decades are what makes the business worth something.
Generally I would use it on smaller / unfamiliar websites; I may be more hesitant about entering my credit card numbers but also it's quicker and easier as I can do it without getting my card out of my bag.
In European online shopping it's very common for everything thats not ment for only one country.
Within Switzerland there is zero need for PayPal do you don't see it as much, but if you ship to Germany or Italy things start to get more complicated.
Stripe is tiny compared to Paypal, and the dodgy Stripe CEO was trying to do some wildly creative financing and work the social media memes in an effort to pull this transaction off. Wall St. basically thought it was stupid and wouldn't support it. Glad he finally gave up -- he certainly got his money's worth of free publicity out of it.
None of this makes sense or is supported by the facts. Stripe is reportedly valued at $159B, PayPal's market cap is currently $52.59B, and your claims about memes and Wall St are asserted without any citations or facts.
I agree with you in principle but I don't think that market cap is the right metric. Market cap captures a lot of assumptions around product mix and growth rates that have been in Stripe's favor for a long time.
The most apples-to-apples comparison is just looking at payments volume and ignoring all their other products. In that case, Stripe just recently overtook PayPal! PayPal is enormous! But Stripe has that compounding growth on its side and GP's argument has become outdated in a short amount of time.
This is ignoring the bit about pc which I just disagree with.
But that value is not tested or backed by the wider market.
Market cap of paypal is.
Also having just spaffed "$8bn" on openrouter, I would be surprised that they have enough resources to get the ~$50bn to buy paypal. Much less the work it would take to integrate a much larger company in to the "stripe" way
I've been wondering about this since it came up in my newsreader that they wanted to acquire PayPal. Seemed like odd timing to me given PayPal has been questionable but necessary in a lot of cases for online businesses in international payments.
In Canada, we use Interac for more ordinary payments between ourselves, and the usual credit cards through card processors like Moneris or bank provided services in physical stores. I can imagine fewer uses for PayPal as time goes on, especially with the accelerated change driven by geopolitics. Visa and Mastercard may be at risk internationally for other countries seeking to keep payment processing entirely in their own yard.
This matter in particular made me wonder how things will go for Stripe going forward with these policy changes that may impact credit cards.
I'd love to delete my PayPal account and never log in again, but the use case for me right now is mostly that companies (outside Canada, and outside NA in most cases) usually only accept payment with PayPal.
PayPal is dying and not that slowly. It's being replaced by Stripe, Adyen, Checkout.com, Apple Pay, Google Pay... etc. margins continue to decrease with no real moat to rising competition. Eventually it will just be Venmo and Braintree left and PayPal will be a company like Western Union that people used to need, but now is mostly used by scammers... They completely squandered their spin off from eBay and acquired terrible companies along the way that didn't pan out really even one time. I wouldn't pay $25B for them. You're buying a depreciating asset.
> The takeover interest has helped it recover, with PayPal shares jumping more than 40% this quarter to give the company a market value of about $52.6 billion.
Seems like they tried to buy a struggling company and leaks of the talks made it too expensive.
It's not a struggling company. I run an e-commerce website. I give people the option to use either Stripe or PayPal. I would say it's a 50 50 split. The company is making $5 billion in profit a year. What's wrong with people?
Yeah the "struggling company" is a bit too harsh of a statement. What they likely were talking about was the stock price. It was getting hit pretty hard and the Stripe deal talks saw confidence which led to the stock price getting back up and now the market value for the company is actually higher than what Stripe is offering in the deal so it doesn't make sense to sell lower at this point of time.
If I have a credit card, as a consumer Stripe and PayPal are about equal. Both let me pay with my card without making an account. Both will lightly nag me to make one, with the difference that Stripe Link is very light-weight and Paypal is a lot more heavy-weight. But in return Paypal allows more payment methods (direct debit from your bank account being a big pull here in Germany) and makes it possible to send money between friends. Also lots of people 30+ (which is the vast majority of the population) have paypal accounts from the "don't give random websites your credit card, give it to this one trustworthy website instead"-era.
If there weren't so many people hating PayPal, I'd expect a straight Stripe/Paypal choice to lean much more towards paypal, not a 50-50 split
There is us fair competition law Sherman anti trust act laws. "is a United States antitrust law which prescribes the rule of free competition among those engaged in commerce and consequently prohibits unfair monopolies"
PayPal might still be the sweetheart, but there's no innovation I feel. With eBay having CC support and being able to charge and return a charge back to the card, PayPal now is in a niche. I'm helping a founder recruit. To handle the load of candidates, we give folks applying some $ for doing a small 1hr project, and Claude told me that PayPal may still be universal way of sending a "gift amounts". I often wonder how much work would it be to bring IBAN accounts to the US. The need for Zelle baffles me, and the fact that person A can't send $ to person B via normal bank infrastructure is interesting.
Sometimes. In USA they may require one check for parties of >N (where N can be 6). Some (fancy) places won't split at all. Then consumers juggle apps to square up the deal.
Who considers PayPal a sweetheart?! PayPal is by far one of the most heinous companies I have interacted with on a regular basis.
Outside the US many banks offer simple QR payment options, the direct transfer difficulties US citizens encounter that make services like PayPal and Zelle necessary are entirely self imposed.
Agree that nobody considers it a sweetheart but you're wrong on the ex-US issue. Paypal is big in Germany for instance and I literally know nobody who uses Paypal in the US (maybe for eBay stuff??)
Probably not very long. Multiple companies, including Amazon, started supporting Wero for payments. And most banks already support it. You scan a QR code or open a link that opens your bank app, show your fingerprint, see the amount and which account and to who, and you approve. Very easy and costs nothing to the seller nor the buyer.
Next year we'll get this in the physical stores...
At the same time you’re underestimating it.
Before covid almost no small businesses would offer card payment; now it’s common.
Sure there are some that are against digital payments and they won’t accept Wero neither, but I would argue the number is very small.
And sure in bars/clubs/nightlife it’s cash only but that also won’t change - it’s for tax reasons.
People don’t like PayPal and only use it for the lack of a better alternative.
EC is widely used and I bet that Wero will be as well.
As a principal I boycott places that only accepts cash in Berlin. There is absolutely no reason for them to accept money only in cash in 2026, except for tax evasion and money laundering
Read my comment again. I said I boycott places that only accepts cash. They can absolutely accept both cards and cash and the only reason they do that is to not pay taxes. I would rather everyone pay taxes without any exceptions
> There is absolutely no reason for them to accept money only in cash in 2026,
When I was young, cash was beloved by some as a matter of principle because of the fact you didn't need any authority's permission to accept it; coupled with its anonymity.
If you were running the city's only LGBT bookshop, you didn't want your till full of signed, dated checks - and card processors wouldn't do business with you even if you wanted to accept cards.
And if you think it’s assholes targeted this way, look at all the women being stalked via flock by cops.
And if you think finances aren’t abused the same way, why do you think the Germans are so worked up about this? The fucking stasi.
A certain type of person will use literally anything they can find against you, including to harass you if they literally can’t find anything you did wrong.
And what better for them than a nice list of all the places and people you have some kind of important vendor or business relationship with - which is why there is money changing hands.
Grocery stores. Gas stations/subway fees, rental payments or mortgage payments. restaurants, gifts or family transfers, work, you name it.
What, why would you need Wero for that? That would just be an EPC-QR-Code using SEPA. Wero is just some cancer in between to sniff off user emails and phone numbers in my eyes.
The European Central Bank is working on regulation regarding the "Digital Euro" which is a bit in a marketing hype loop using block chain and other terms as a hype, while fundamentally trying to come up with a Euro-Zone-Wide approach to create a mostly anonymous digital currency, with some offline capability. If they come up with a final working concept paper, this would become legally mandated with low charges.
Wero is a product by banks, trying to be faster. Trying to have an established platform under their control, which is well established before ECB is ready with D€.
Part of this is just the banking here in Germany being so bad. Fast ('instant') transfers are relatively new for many banks, online banking has always been quite poor/limited, and many of the cards they used to offer were Girocard (or Maestro) and didn't work with online retailers. Paypal has always been a great buffer to those problems.
Well, to be fair, even for many customers 'instant' transfers are new. Even if their bank offers them for months now. Some folks still consider 'online banking' a novelty.
That’s interesting, because every time there’s something about a money transfer service, there are a ton of posts saying “Oh, the United States is so backwards, in Europe you could do this forever.” Apparently, by Europe, they mean the particular place they happen to live in.
The euro payment scenario has changed drastically in the last few years and it's a good thing for customers: yesterday I was able to pay a US company with Bizum through Stripe.
A tongue in cheek comment from me is that in Spain we have all this beautiful infrastructure but no money to send. I would rather have money to send via a slightly more inconvenient infrastructure.
Europe has Wero and India has UPI. Right now it is still good but it will get increasingly harder for private companies like Stripe and Paypal to operate as this becomes more embedded as a critical public service provided by governments.
You are right, however they are backed by the european payment initiative and the idea is that it becomes an eu wide standard. Whether they will succeed and how fast, we shall see.
I'm not happy this is not an ECB project, but commercial banks are behind. I'm sceptical if this will stay free, and on how our transaction data is used.
It's basically the better version of iDeal, used heavily in Netherlands. They're slowly changing the iDeal name to Wero. Apparently it's mostly that, change of name coupled with a bigger scope.
From my personal experience PayPal is actually liked in Germany, people want PayPal for payment because they don’t want to give their bank details or don’t have a credit card. I’ve only ever seen people complain about the company online
> because they don’t want to give their bank details
What's the problem with sharing your bank details? I don't consider those a secret at all. And if they were, chances are they've been compromised somewhere anyway.
The banking system in some countries (including the US) does regard that information as secret. This is, of course, fully insane and the only reason it persists is that the regulatory institutions in those countries are too intransigent to switch from their >100 year old technology to some merely 50 year old technology like public key cryptography.
Or even backward-compatible changes like requiring banks to give customers virtual account numbers that they can give to different merchants/people and turn on and off.
That's fine, but if I give you my IBAN and name on the account, you can only send money to me...
Well and commit actual fraud/identity they by forging my signature maybe... But we don't see that happen on a large scale because it just isn't feasible/worth it. We would see it otherwise as I'm sure there are plenty of datasets with those pieces of info to be bought..
It’s not considered a secret, it’s just something people don’t feel comfortable entering in forms online. That feels a bit too personal, and is simple to enter wrong. A middleman makes that process a non issue. It’s also nice to be able to change banks or have multiple accounts without having to care about online payments details, you just pick in the middleman setting the one you want to use. For example I had an account frozen for an incorrect inkasso (that was eventually retracted), I was glad I could just ask a friend to send me something to PayPal as a way to do online payments.
The abstraction of the middleman makes sense to me for some types of payments, I find bank accounts a bit too low level sometimes.
Unless you set up something like a brick-and-mortar Trustpilot competitor, you are likely to only ever read online about user feedback on anything. But this does not say a lot about the quality of the feedback.
I am always surprised that people use PayPal for privacy reasons. The company shares a lot more of your information with third parties than a SEPA transfer or card payment would.
[1]: Seriously though, I can’t find good data I trust on this so correct me if you’ve got a good source saying otherwise, or even if someone has something substantiating this better I would take that too.
It's still the only consistently supported thing I encounter online.
I'm aware things like Wero are poised to shake things up, but still have no real idea about timeline and impact.
Also, it's often the way people transfer money between each other.
Card number is standard, with an increasing amount of places supporting Apple Pay (thankfully)
Moving to Germany from the US was like entering a timewarp. PayPal is still real??? People use it??
I get it now but it's a pretty big miss that GiroCard couldn't figure out how to displace them after all this time.
Not having a lot of credit cards and the associated rewards is actually healthy. Research has shown lower social classes "pay" for the rewards due to paying the higher transaction fees. There was actually a relevant thread here a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49432201 (How credit card rewards became a $9.2B wealth transfer)
Well, I used to live and work in South Korea for many years, so both DE and the US are about equally oldschool in my book :)
online is dead too, no app uses paypal, and plenty of online merchants take credit cards more than paypal; they even offer their own credit cards.
paypal hasn't innovated at all in over a decade, and people are scared of the way it will hang on to your money with little recourse.
You have already lost your plot with that claim. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it is not widespread.
PayPal is the payment method I use for Google Pay, so pretty much everything goes through it.
(I don't have a credit card, which is common where I live.)
Since then Apple Pay/Google pay/browser wallets have taken a big chunk of its fast checkout advantage
And mobile banking apps/instant transfer have taken out chunks of the private transactions, and more so as consumer to consumer transactions often had the parties using PayPal gift mode to avoid fees but that then had zero protection.
The 2020’s is much more crowded than 1990’s and 2020’s decades
Also it was its partnership with eBay that made it dominant and eBay no longer promote PayPal as preferred payment method.
That estimates PayPal still has 40%+ online payment market share.
I'm assuming a lot of that is long-tail 'I put a PayPal link on my store in 2005' stuff, but I imagine those add up.
And they're also probably a sticky customer base, in the sense that anyone still using PayPal as primary today doesn't like changing things, which makes acquiring those customers worth it.
It was bonkers.
It accounts for about 20% of my sales. I was about to write 'overwhelmingly Europeans' and I thought I better check. Nope.
I am guessing the millions of people they have on-boarded in the last decades are what makes the business worth something.
Generally I would use it on smaller / unfamiliar websites; I may be more hesitant about entering my credit card numbers but also it's quicker and easier as I can do it without getting my card out of my bag.
I also use it exclusively for eBay purchases.
Within Switzerland there is zero need for PayPal do you don't see it as much, but if you ship to Germany or Italy things start to get more complicated.
1 month ago: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48915953
I agree with you in principle but I don't think that market cap is the right metric. Market cap captures a lot of assumptions around product mix and growth rates that have been in Stripe's favor for a long time.
The most apples-to-apples comparison is just looking at payments volume and ignoring all their other products. In that case, Stripe just recently overtook PayPal! PayPal is enormous! But Stripe has that compounding growth on its side and GP's argument has become outdated in a short amount of time.
This is ignoring the bit about pc which I just disagree with.
But that value is not tested or backed by the wider market.
Market cap of paypal is.
Also having just spaffed "$8bn" on openrouter, I would be surprised that they have enough resources to get the ~$50bn to buy paypal. Much less the work it would take to integrate a much larger company in to the "stripe" way
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgp5ll3jd4o?app-referre...
In Canada, we use Interac for more ordinary payments between ourselves, and the usual credit cards through card processors like Moneris or bank provided services in physical stores. I can imagine fewer uses for PayPal as time goes on, especially with the accelerated change driven by geopolitics. Visa and Mastercard may be at risk internationally for other countries seeking to keep payment processing entirely in their own yard.
This matter in particular made me wonder how things will go for Stripe going forward with these policy changes that may impact credit cards.
I'd love to delete my PayPal account and never log in again, but the use case for me right now is mostly that companies (outside Canada, and outside NA in most cases) usually only accept payment with PayPal.
Only Stripe knows.
> The takeover interest has helped it recover, with PayPal shares jumping more than 40% this quarter to give the company a market value of about $52.6 billion.
Seems like they tried to buy a struggling company and leaks of the talks made it too expensive.
Confirmation bias.
If there weren't so many people hating PayPal, I'd expect a straight Stripe/Paypal choice to lean much more towards paypal, not a 50-50 split
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act
I've even had people refuse cash because they want me to "venmo" them or whatever stupid app they prefer.
Americans are super weird about dining procedures and expectations. Remember, we tip here. It's weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tipping_customs_by_cou...
Outside the US many banks offer simple QR payment options, the direct transfer difficulties US citizens encounter that make services like PayPal and Zelle necessary are entirely self imposed.
Paypal has actively lobbied for legislation(or lack of) in ways that has hurt American consumers.
But I think their time has passed.
Next year we'll get this in the physical stores...
Wero is a great start but I suspect that PayPal will stay around for many more years.
Sure there are some that are against digital payments and they won’t accept Wero neither, but I would argue the number is very small. And sure in bars/clubs/nightlife it’s cash only but that also won’t change - it’s for tax reasons.
People don’t like PayPal and only use it for the lack of a better alternative. EC is widely used and I bet that Wero will be as well.
Source: lived last 15 years in Berlin
I used to go to a bar in Copenhagen with that principle.
The bar with the privacy principle didn't accept cards, and had a sign to that effect on the bar.
When I was young, cash was beloved by some as a matter of principle because of the fact you didn't need any authority's permission to accept it; coupled with its anonymity.
If you were running the city's only LGBT bookshop, you didn't want your till full of signed, dated checks - and card processors wouldn't do business with you even if you wanted to accept cards.
Stalkers.
Abusive ex’s.
And if you think it’s assholes targeted this way, look at all the women being stalked via flock by cops.
And if you think finances aren’t abused the same way, why do you think the Germans are so worked up about this? The fucking stasi.
A certain type of person will use literally anything they can find against you, including to harass you if they literally can’t find anything you did wrong.
And what better for them than a nice list of all the places and people you have some kind of important vendor or business relationship with - which is why there is money changing hands.
Grocery stores. Gas stations/subway fees, rental payments or mortgage payments. restaurants, gifts or family transfers, work, you name it.
The European Central Bank is working on regulation regarding the "Digital Euro" which is a bit in a marketing hype loop using block chain and other terms as a hype, while fundamentally trying to come up with a Euro-Zone-Wide approach to create a mostly anonymous digital currency, with some offline capability. If they come up with a final working concept paper, this would become legally mandated with low charges.
Wero is a product by banks, trying to be faster. Trying to have an established platform under their control, which is well established before ECB is ready with D€.
In 2026 I pay contractors working on my US house by logging into my bank and instructing it to mail a paper check.
The only exception is Venmo which everyone expects will be enshittified.
- Bizum for national transfers, you just need someone's number (which you usually have through WhatsApp) representing 90% of instant payments
- SEPA payments also make bank transfers free and trivial for your European friends
> Wero is a product of EPI Company SE > Available in Belgium, France and Germany.
Greetings from the rest of Europe.
What's the problem with sharing your bank details? I don't consider those a secret at all. And if they were, chances are they've been compromised somewhere anyway.
Or even backward-compatible changes like requiring banks to give customers virtual account numbers that they can give to different merchants/people and turn on and off.
Well and commit actual fraud/identity they by forging my signature maybe... But we don't see that happen on a large scale because it just isn't feasible/worth it. We would see it otherwise as I'm sure there are plenty of datasets with those pieces of info to be bought..
The abstraction of the middleman makes sense to me for some types of payments, I find bank accounts a bit too low level sometimes.
I am always surprised that people use PayPal for privacy reasons. The company shares a lot more of your information with third parties than a SEPA transfer or card payment would.