NewsLab
Aug 28 13:40 UTC

CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO (github.com)

987 points|by GrumpySciGuy||681 comments|Read full story on github.com

Comments (681)

120 shown|More comments
  1. 1. GrumpySciGuy||context
    A team of software developers were recently let go so a company could replace them with AI. So they got together and created an Open Source AI CEO to replace the CEO and other executives. Hopefully, turnabout is fair play and this might even get some folks to think twice about using AI to replace people.
  2. 2. VohuMana||context
    This is hilarious, I feel like we are going to see AI companies add something to the system prompt or terms of service that explicitly forbids having an LLM act as CEO. Honestly though I do hope this gives pause to the C suite when it comes to replacing people with AI
  3. 3. ThrowawayR2||context
    Corporate officers, including CEOs, have to be "natural persons" (legal jargon for flesh-and-blood humans) either directly by law or indirectly as a practical matter so the attempted turnabout falls flat on its face.

    Sun Tzu said to "know your enemy" and those who don't know the basics of how businesses and finance work have no hope of defeating them.

  4. 4. forgetfreeman||context
    Neat. Hire an intern to prompt the "CEO" as needed. Problem solved.
  5. 5. cwillu||context
    If the paperwork says the intern is the CEO, then the intern is the CEO, regardless of how much the intern's agent's github says otherwise.
  6. 6. forgetfreeman||context
    Yep. You're starting to catch on. Same functionality, significant cost savings for the organization.
  7. 7. cwillu||context
    The intern might be convinced to do something other than what the bot says.
  8. 8. forgetfreeman||context
    Maybe, maybe not. A lot of folks would gleefully avoid rocking the boat if handed a job this cushy. If they do flake out you could ask if anyone in facilities would like to take a break from emptying trashcans...
  9. 9. ithkuil||context
    Then the board can fire that CEO?
  10. 10. ThrowawayR2||context
    This is one of those rejoinders that tries to be clever but really, really isn't. The "intern as fake CEO" is left holding the bag because it's their signature on contracts and other legal documents. The idea of puppet CEOs to fraudulently dodge accountability existed well before LLMs became a thing. Courts see right through that kind of scheme plus the "intern" is likely to turn coat against the mastermind to save their own skin at the first sign of trouble.
  11. 11. forgetfreeman||context
    If you think CEOs are the primary legal signatories for their company you might need to spend some time away from garage band startups. Companies maintain entire legal departments for a reason.
  12. 12. bee_rider||context
    I’d be more interested to see a collection of independent guild, unions, and co-ops that voluntarily coordinate through an AI intermediary.

    Because the AI can’t really own things or be held responsible, the idea of a skeuomorphic AI seems quite silly. Keep the ownership in the humans, but plural, and have them in contact with the actual work.

  13. 13. jayemar||context
    Couldn't "indirectly as a practical matter" be interpreted as what this project is attempting to challenge?
  14. 14. ThrowawayR2||context
    How so? Even in a jurisdiction where corporate officers aren't required to be a natural person, trying to have an AI CEO is like trying to make a cat/dog a CEO. As a practical matter, it is not a legal entity recognized as capable of entering into agreements so no government or other business will accept legal documents, contracts, etc. signed by the AI CEO or signed by a human claiming to act under the AI's (not valid) authority as CEO delegated to them. If I had to guess the latter would likely be considered fraud.

    Unless some movement forms to get broad agreement that an AI instance can constitute a legal person (some kind of AI equivalent of corporate personhood, which nobody seems to like), this project is DOA.

  15. 15. Animats||context
    Is this automated CEO any good? Is there a listing from a demo session?
  16. 16. GrumpySciGuy||context
    Highly configurable. Looks like it is targeted at any level of management. The key features seems that it can generate its own vision of how to move something forward and that it can be set with degrees of freedom depending on the use case. Video demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_g97xxVTMk
  17. 17. shermantanktop||context
    The speech model for the voiceover should be named “Max Vocalfry.”
  18. 18. georgemcbay||context
    > Is this automated CEO any good?

    Most importantly, what is its golf handicap?

  19. 19. jayroh||context
    Peak comment right here
  20. 20. edoceo||context
    What does a CEO(and other managers) do really?

    Sometimes the claim is "set vision" - which AI can extract from the collective.

    Someimes the claim is to prioritize the work (with bias), AI can extract that from the collective too, right?

    Making resources available to the team? AI.

    Coordinating between teams? AI.

    Can the AI do this in a more un-biased way? Can it refine collective intelligence and desire into objective goals?

    More than a software factory id love to see a manager-factory.

    One thing, AI cannot do (yet) is bring the network. Like when you hire folk from Booth or Sloan so you can sell to places that hired Booth and Sloan grads.

  21. 21. nullorempty||context
    Well, as soon as they start being replaced is there a network to bring.
  22. 22. andsoitis||context
    > Sometimes the claim is "set vision" - which AI can extract from the collective.

    To be an effective CEO, you have to make judgement calls that the collective can’t always have wisdom and context on, is confidential, or requires fast decision making during which there are interactive discussions or negotiations!

  23. 23. Freedom2||context
    Like RTO mandates which were definitely made with wisdom.
  24. 24. andsoitis||context
    Not all CEOs did that. Just like all software engineers aren't great or excellent, all CEOs aren't. But to categorically denounce seems rigid.
  25. 25. sandeepkd||context
    This is highly subjective and a gives an impression that every one is doing a very effective job. The reality is much more grey when you account for so many companies that get shut down.

    My personal take, somewhere down the line people feel scared of taking responsibility for more than themselves and their family. This limits the ability for most people to take on such ventures. Not everyone falls in the same bucket but a lot of leadership in todays date is about taking the role without responsibility. They happen to be in the role with the help of network affect and somehow that just amplifies.

  26. 26. andsoitis||context
    > This is highly subjective and a gives an impression that every one is doing a very effective job. The reality is much more grey when you account for so many companies that get shut down.

    I believe that the average are average.

    I don’t believe what I wrote suggests that. I was attempting to be as neutral as possible.

  27. 27. inkyoto||context
    In the current legal framework, AI can't be held accountable, a human being is required.

    That is what the CEO is for – to be on the receiving end of beatings and flogging if the business they are at the masthead of effs something up.

  28. 28. valleyer||context
    Good point. CEOs of companies are often held personally accountable for corporate malfeasance by "the current legal framework".
  29. 29. fooker||context
    I understand your sarcasm but that’s what the limited in LLC is for.

    Unbounded liability means nobody starts a business, or they do it under the table without responsibility or taxes.

    Turns out we want successful private businesses much more than we want to hold a few nasty CEOs accountable.

  30. 30. valleyer||context
    I agree. I just thought it was funny that someone was pointing out the legal unaccountability of an AI in this context.
  31. 31. inkyoto||context
    There is no need for two penny sarcasm.

    I deliberately stopped short of invoking golden parachutes and the numerous other escape hatches available at that altitude, as I am perfectly aware they exist. I am equally aware of chief executives who have departed with remarkable agility from organisations they themselves had first steered off the cliff.

    My point, however, remains the same: as the letter of the law presently stands, AI can't be made accountable – at least not today.

  32. 32. vasco||context
    The sarcasm was pretty funny so it has some utility, no need to be so serious
  33. 33. nradov||context
    LLCs and other corporate structures only (mostly) protect employees and shareholders from civil judgments. CEOs and other executives are also at risk of criminal penalties for Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX) violations and similar. Actual criminal prosecutions of CEOs have been few, but not zero.

    https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/oklahomacity/press-release...

  34. 34. fooker||context
    The typical corporate trick is to argue that the corporation itself is responsible for any wrongdoing, not a particular executive.

    I can totally see this blame being shifted to AI in a "nobody got fired for choosing IBM" way.

  35. 35. stale2002||context
    > What does a CEO(and other managers) do really?

    The answer is to be responsible to the business. The buck stops at the CEO. Therefore, their responsibilities are technically everything in the entire company. And I think many people who have only worked for other people underestimate how valuable that responsibility is.

  36. 36. rideontime||context
    Many people observe reality, where the workers end up being the ones held accountable for the CEO's decisions, not the CEO.
  37. 37. matchbok3||context
    Workers are not legally or financially accountable for any of that. That is the whole point of a "job". I think you are confused.
  38. 38. rideontime||context
    Are you confusing CEOs with founders, shareholders, etc.? Chief Executive Officer is, in fact, a "job."
  39. 39. NegativeLatency||context
    Neither are CEOs in our present society
  40. 40. JDups||context
    When the worker loses their jobs over bad executive decisions, they sure feel like they were pretty harshly financially penalized for those decisions.
  41. 41. matchbok3||context
    And they can get a new job? Or should people be in the same job all their life?
  42. 42. SpicyLemonZest||context
    Many people observe a limited subset of reality. It's highly visible when a company hits a crisis and people lose their jobs; it's much more common, but much less visible, for a CEO to get an after-hours call about a brewing problem which they must immediately work to smooth over.
  43. 43. UqWBcuFx6NV4r||context
    It’s amazing how many people on this website harp on about nobody noticing their hard work, nobody caring unless the server is down, etc, and not being able to conceive of the remote chance of this same phenomenon applying to other roles in an organisation.
  44. 44. rideontime||context
    You truly don't see the difference between those two examples?
  45. 45. SpicyLemonZest||context
    I'm not quite sure why you ask that? I'm not arguing that these two very different examples are the same, I'm explaining more concretely what it means to say that a CEO's job is to "to be responsible to the business".
  46. 46. rideontime||context
    And you don't see being laid off due to the business's failure as being "responsible to the business"?
  47. 47. sandeepkd||context
    I wish that was true some how. In real world unfortunately the buck stops at whoever is easy scape goat, at times it can be a CEO
  48. 48. a34729t||context
    Rewponsibility is why we pay external consultants!
  49. 49. Zanfa||context
    Doesn't this usually just mean saying "I take full responsibility" and then firing a bunch of unrelated people?
  50. 50. jaggederest||context
    To paraphrase Andy Grove:

    > The job of an executive is: to define and enforce culture and values for their whole organization, and to ratify good decisions.

    (And that's the whole list! Nowhere do you find set tasks or make decisions)

    To me, that means that they're still pretty essential - on both fronts, AI needs values and AI needs a system that can tell whether decisions are good or not.

  51. 51. bronson||context
    > AI needs values and AI needs a system that can tell whether decisions are good or not

    Well, so do most CEOs.

  52. 52. parineum||context
    There are hundreds of thousands of CEOs of companies you've never heard of.
  53. 53. mrheosuper||context
    >AI needs a system that can tell whether decisions are good or not.

    So they need someone to review AI output huh?

  54. 54. edoceo||context
    If the operation is to distill options into a few choices, and then pick the "best" one then, I think hivemind can win there too. Real-time democracy running a business.

    For example an open-source project could/would still have a BDFL but, the AI-CEO could do the operational busywork while the BDFL is out talking to humans and presenting at PGCon or some other productive thing.

  55. 55. vasco||context
    > Real-time democracy running a business

    This is not a competitive advantage

  56. 56. DoctorOetker||context
    Neither is dictatorship?
  57. 57. jeezfrk||context
    Business actually treats a pseudo-dictatorship (with the requisite yes-men) as "good leadership".

    Most times it's pretty simple, in my experience. A CEO either runs a business as a (1) Sales focus [best deals and vendors] or (2) Marketing focus [best reputation and trends] or (3) Investor focus [best boardroom friends].

    Lots of other opinions are usually thrown out until there's really only one facet used for running the company.

  58. 58. vintermann||context
    Sure, if by business you mean investors.
  59. 59. kian||context
    is there a (4) or (5) that would be preferable? :)
  60. 60. parineum||context
    It is.

    The best products are usually from single minds with a strong vision. "Too many cooks in the kitchen" is a phrase for a reason.

    Your least favorite products are designed by committee or a vision less person following trends.

  61. 61. vintermann||context
    As long as investors believe this, it matters less if it's true or not.
  62. 62. jaggederest||context
    Nope! that's the subtlety. "distill options" is not the CEO's (or any executive's) job.

    The way he phrases it, if I remember correctly (and this is by no means the only way to executive, I just really like his framing), is that the way you make decisions is by getting your immediate subordinates to agree, and they iterate. Decisions should be made at the lowest level that they can be made at, and if that's the CEO level, you've made mistakes.

    So you make the values list, you make sure that people live by it (up to and including firing people who don't and hiring people who do, which he basically thinks is the whole day to day), and then you bring your subordinates together to agree on decisions. If they don't agree, you send them off to work through it together and come back with consensus (or, less great, compromise). If you have to put your thumb on the scale to get a good decision, again, you're not CEOing well.

    Basically if you have to be a dictator, there's no way you can actually effectively do that. Proper leadership is getting people to act the way you would, if you had all the knowledge and perspective they do, but without having to make them do it. Lift them up, empower them, give them the responsibility and tools and values, and then endorse the result.

  63. 63. dan_can_code||context
    Enforcing culture is not something I believe is possible. Nobody is going to listen to the C suite suit over their own experience with their colleagues. People just end up saying the right buzzwords to appear that the culture has been adopted, but it will be mostly met with malicious compliance. If the culture is driven by incentives and rewards for behaviour,then that's a whole different ball game.
  64. 64. snoman||context
    > Enforcing culture is not something I believe is possible.

    > … the culture is driven by incentives and rewards for behaviour…

    Not sure what your definition of enforcing is… but it doesn’t have to be by actual force.

  65. 65. thelastgallon||context
    > What does a CEO(and other managers) do really?

    Be friends with the board. Negotiate high pay and benefits (for themselves), and a golden parachute in case things go south (which they do most often). Take credit for things that were going to happen anyways. Blame xyz for things that didn't work out.

    These are all impossible tasks for AI. AI can't play golf.

  66. 66. conductr||context
    It’s going to be funny when the Tesla robots start showing up at tee times because the CEO couldn’t make it. Like a meeting agent taking notes for people who didn’t attend
  67. 67. a34729t||context
    Chinese humanoid robots are 3 years out from playing a decent round on a par 3 course.
  68. 68. psd1||context
    Full self-drive and self-putt?
  69. 69. newyankee||context
    See, the issue is CEOs capture a fair amount of value but ultimately it is the owners and the main shareholders who hire them for that value to insulate themselves from day to day running of the company. The maximum value of the company is accruing to the shareholders in a public company anyways. While the morality of the right nos compared to median 'worker' can always be debated, I still find CEO earns 500x that of median worker type comparisons a little bit disingenuous and it totally insulates the owner class.
  70. 70. forestrywat||context
    Managers coach and develop people. Helping them grow, nurturing their strengths and connecting them with opportunities that help them achieve more.

    At least the good ones do.

  71. 71. mulderc||context
    Yes, that is a good manager, but in my experience, it is better if the culture of the team is about ensuring everyone has opportunities to grow, build on their strengths, and connect with opportunities. When that is considered the manager’s job, and not the job of every member of the team, people get neglected, and many strengths and opportunities go to waste.
  72. 72. forestrywat||context
    Best managers make this the core culture in the team.
  73. 73. mulderc||context
    "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." — God
  74. 74. swader999||context
    Marketing and they hire and fire important people. That's about it though, where we should take the product, what features to do next, partnerships, these are pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.
  75. 75. collingreen||context
    I don't think these things are obvious. I've worked at many places that have had big, company-changing forks in the road available to them and navigating those forks wasn't easy (and in my opinion several times we chose wrong). The crowd wasn't always right or even well aligned and sometimes the only agreement was that a middle of the road approach would be worse. My intuition says getting that right takes a lot of luck, good momentum, and a lot of departments working well together (bringing in and communicating market info, broadcasting marketing that works, making good partnerships, etc). The cynic in me thinks one big impact of a ceo is the various cheating and corruption tools that can make some of those things easier or at least less critical to get right (you don't need to make good cybertrucks or convince people to buy them if the government agrees to buy 450k of them as "armored vehicles", for example).

    If that kind of thing is easy for you (the honest ones or the clandestine ones) then you might make a really strong entrepreneur/business leader.

  76. 76. expensive_news||context
    At my current job, a 10 person startup, the CEOs job is to generate leads, talk to potential customers, and close deals. He, along with the other founders, shape what we work on based on what he thinks it’s possible for us to sell. He’s essential to the business.

    At my previous 50k person company I never talked to anyone within 4 levels of the CEO and thought he was useless. But realistically he probably had a somewhat similar job - talking with the board, talking with politicians, and talking with the CEOs of other companies in the effort to lower costs (tax breaks, partnerships, etc) and generate sales (contracts, partnerships, etc).

  77. 77. cybrox||context
    Similar, yes, but instead of finding out who else can give you money at 10 people, they have to find out who else they have to give money at 10k people. Leads and lobbies.
  78. 78. vintermann||context
    That's a sales person.
  79. 79. nkmnz||context
    A sales person is usually trained on an existing product or portfolio of products (including services). A good sales person might use their exposure to customers for gathering valuable information to feed back into their upstream org. But this is completely different from someone who has to actively shape a both sides of the company, value delivery and value creation, because both need to mature in a choreographed manner.

    So you are right in one direction: a good CEO often has to be a good sales person. The reverse does not apply, though.

  80. 80. moregrist||context
    There’s a reason that many CEOs have a stint in sales.

    In a stable, profitable company, you need sales to keep the business solvent. And understanding the sales pipeline is pretty essential to effectively running a business.

    Where this breaks down is when the C-suite forgets that you also need a product, and you need to keep innovating on that product in ways that bring value to current and future customers. This seems to happen pretty frequently.

  81. 81. volkercraig||context
    CEO's exist as a sink for liability. When something goes wrong, they are the fall guys, that's ultimately their job. That's why CEO compensation is generally correlated strongly to earnings and they usually have golden parachutes.

    Without a CEO to fire when the business goes south, how is the board supposed to respond? Taking accountability? lmao

  82. 82. SlightlyLeftPad||context
    They manage people. They’re people people.
  83. 83. baalimago||context
    They ensure the company is funded.
  84. 84. gib444||context
    This! They sell the company and vision to potential investors
  85. 85. hansvm||context
    > can AI do <hard thing>

    Not yet. Maybe soon. I'm not placing bets on timelines.

    > What do CEOs do

    No clue. I'm not there yet. Maybe it's critical. Maybe nothing.

    > and other managers

    There are a lot of bad managers. I'm halfway not terrible. A significant part of my job is setting technical direction in the same way I did as a staff+ engineer but without the overhead of asking somebody else's permission. Another large part is the "shit shield" function -- somebody thinks they want something, and they either find themselves blocked by me or immediately satisfied with whatever code I'm able to cook up between meetings, not breaking the team's concentration. A huge part is basically just being a teacher, and I love teaching (if it weren't so pessimized by society that might actually be my career). A large part of it is navigating organizational nonsense (for "reasons," I'm rambling, ask if you're curious). And... whatever. My job didn't get easier going into management. Not all of it should have to exist in the abstract, but in any specific company it's still an important function.

  86. 86. penguin_booze||context
    > What does a CEO(and other managers) do really?

    Take risk with other people's lives and earn the big bucks for that.

  87. 87. UqWBcuFx6NV4r||context
    If you were legitimately suddenly saddled with the responsibilities of a typical ‘CEO’, chances are you’d shit your britches within a month.

    Part of a CEO’s job is to be the target of all warranted and unwarranted blame for every single bad thing that anyone in the organisation experiences, even the inherent/inevitable ones, even the ones that others in the organisation see as a good thing.

    Me. Not a CEO, and no desire to be. I’m also about as lefty as they come, definitely not a bootlicker or ladder climber. I’m just not a delusional, naive, unjustifiably self-righteous grunt, seemingly unlike many people sounding off on this thread.

  88. 88. meta_gunslinger||context
    Exactly, as also evidenced by the guy who was brutally murdered just because he was the CEO of a company someone had an axe to grind against.
  89. 89. e36||context
    This account is posting comments every 0.01 seconds.
  90. 90. Zylokloto||context
    Good ones actually are quite aware of the industry, connect the dots and setup the company to be sustainable, growing and ready when its time to be ready.

    Like investing in a prototype which solves industry issues the CEO understood.

    Same as the CTO just that the CTOs focus is doing the same thing with technology. Like in an org with a lot of 'AI? who cares" saying and seeing the future of it and intorducing it in time and not until everyone else already did it.

    Defining core principles like the tech stack, making the decision to keep the current setup or migrating to something 'new' but better in longterm (like migrating from or to kubernetes)

  91. 91. bob1029||context
    > What does a CEO(and other managers) do really?

    The point of a CEO is to be able to deploy a fully authoritative business delegation to any golf course on earth within 48 hours.

    This isn't really a joke. At some point, you need to meet with your customers if you intend to close a deal. B2C is also an option but good luck actually making realistic income in this market without an army at your back.

    I have yet to meet a developer (myself included) that I would trust to be alone in the board room with a very large client. Total mastery of the technology is great, but you also need to convince people who aren't compelled by rational technological arguments. Sometimes the only way to convince them is to go on a very expensive fishing trip.

    CEOs get a lot of hate for the pay and power, but they endure a lot of shit that most developers couldn't handle for more than five minutes. Sitting at fancy restaurants with these people is torture. I can respect anyone who refuses to believe this, but it's true. There's no cuisine or vintage of wine that can compensate for awful company.

  92. 92. Covenant0028||context
    Ah yes, the unbearable burden of sipping fine wine at a Michelin star restaurant with a less than stellar company.

    That's surely way worse than the fate Bezos inflicts on his workers, such as forcing them to work in extremely hazardous warehouses and to pee in bottles.

  93. 93. missedthecue||context
    In companies large enough to have a board, the CEO's job is to manage relationships with customers, vendors, and wall street. If his company is big enough, he'll need to manage relationships with the government too. In fact, among founders whose business became big, the number one complaint you hear is how little of their busy day is spent on their actual product anymore.

    AI is not very good at forming and building human relationships.

  94. 94. raymond_goo||context
  95. 95. sensanaty||context
    They siphon away as much money as they can get away with , screw over their underlings and hop onto their golden parachutes whenever shit hits the fan, which with their short-sighted coke-fuelled decisions always happens.
  96. 96. UqWBcuFx6NV4r||context
    Their job is to create an environment where people with a view as narrow and naive as yours can actually do something wholly productive.
  97. 97. nullorempty||context
    Honestly, this is hilarious!

    Please replace CTOs while you are at it and most architects can also be replaced easily!

  98. 98. GrumpySciGuy||context
    It can be configured to replace any mangagment role. The goal is to do for management what co-pilot, cursor and Claude did for development.
  99. 99. cactusplant7374||context
    What company fired them? I don't see that in the repo but maybe I missed it.
  100. 100. Brajeshwar||context
    I’m all for productive people, brilliant engineers. I still get dirty with codes/work all the way down to the newly hired fresh out of college kids, to the production architects that shapes multi-million, if not billions, of P&L. I’m also very lucky to be included in key decision making, planning, negating amongst the boards of C-Suites, Directors, VPs.

    A very personal view but many developers/engineers fail to see the overall picture. And yes, I was there and I went through all of the mistakes.

    The things you see on the surface of those incompetent CxOs are just the tiny piece of the bigger picture. You cannot replace blames, decision in the face of uncertainty. Almost all decisions that businesses take have nothing to do with the proficiencies of technologies or engineering finesse, or even the best options, but mostly on “incentives” and who can take/own the “blame.”

    “AI” replacing developers is evident because that is a rather tiny perspective and kinda easy to do the equation - developer can do that (good, bad, best) and can the AI do it - maybe, perhaps. So, replace.

    A C-Suite took a decision to tick the final approval of a billion dollar deal with a service providers (amongst 10s of them). The idea might have sounded idiotic because there were 3 others better at the top than the chosen one. Even if all of the task and options were weighted with AI, but that last human decision is the Blame that the C-Suite took on, by betting his incentives on it (money, fame, pride, ego.)

  101. 101. pdhborges||context
    > A very personal view but many developers/engineers fail to see the overall picture. And yes, I was there and I went through all of the mistakes.

    What is failling to see the overall picture? I hate this overall picture mysticism. I bet that if people where given the same role and information as the CEO they would be able to see the overall picture.

  102. 102. sapphicsnail||context
    > Almost all decisions that businesses take have nothing to do with the proficiencies of technologies or engineering finesse, or even the best options, but mostly on “incentives” and who can take/own the “blame.”

    This argument always confuses me because it seems like lower level employees are the ones that get quickly dismissed when things get bad while a lot of C level executives seem to have some sort of compensation even if they fuck up.

  103. 103. ryandrake||context
    I think a lot of this kind of talk treats the C-Suite as special, mystical "visionary" people who Know Things We Can't Know, and by virtue of this otherworldly magical power, are uniquely qualified to do their jobs. Like the average person with basic knowledge of his business and industry can't possibly choose one service provider out of 10 bids, or set business priorities, or drive and enforce culture. We're not talking about wizardry here.

    People always dunk on me for saying this outrageous statement, but if you put me in charge of a random Fortune 500 company, I give myself a 50% probability of the company performing better than if its real CEO was in charge, and a 50% probability of it performing worse. I really don't think these guys bring as much to the table as they think they do and as much as the general public seems to think they do. Business success does not come from paranormal insight and abilities.

    I think you could randomly nominate CEOs from the set of the general population with, say, a minimum of a college degree, and the randomly nominated CEO's performance would not statistically differ from "qualified" CEOs.

  104. 104. thelastgallon||context
    This is absolutely spot on. CEO/C-Suite/VPs are surrounded by gatekeepers (usually something like the PMO org, program management) who feed them with garbage info. Even if a top level leader is genuinely interested in making things better, they would never know because the gatekeepers firewall any competent person.

    The gatekeeping org has the highest density of incompetence. They only hire incompetent because loyalty to the person hired is the most important. Gatekeeping orgs of various leaders protect each other, there is almost never any blame, it is things are good and they are going to get better, announce xyz initiatives/projects.

  105. 105. cosmodisk||context
    There are some exceptional executives out there with strong vision, ability to execute and build. Those are rare. The rest are just a bunch of people who had risen to the position because of whatever. They often don't have any special knowledge or skills and succeed mostly because of how the system works. For instance, I can't imagine what one would need to do to fuck up in a company like Coca-Cola. It's super well established, supply chains are golden, everything works,etc. So does success in such a company really mean the executive is some sort of visionary genius? Absolutely no.
  106. 106. Omniusaspirer||context
    CEOs are probably by and large less technically competent than the average technical line employee, but what companies are actually paying for is personal connections to power structures that can be leveraged for profit. Look at someone like Condoleezza Rice- almost certainly her political science doctorate imparted her with no real technical knowledge, yet she's served on the boards of C3.ai, Chevron, HP, Dropbox, Transamerica, Charles Schwab and a million other vague leadership positions for other entities in fields she almost certainly lacks any competence in.
  107. 107. yunnpp||context
    An auditable executive would certainly be a first.
  108. 108. walrus01||context
    looks like a good way to run up a really large anthropic token bill.
  109. 109. bwhiting2356||context
    Many CEOs are bad and their businesses will either fail or be bailed out. But the work CEOs do is probably some of the last to get automated - higher order strategy, relationship building, managing people.
  110. 110. jameslk||context
    I get it’s a joke, and often a frequent cynical joke made here, but I actually think it’s a good thought experiment. Almost like a new Turing test

    The thought experiment, to be clear, is building an artificially intelligent CEO or company founder with the intent of generating profit. If this AI can turn a profit, it has passed this new test

    Of course, by the time this new AI starts turning a profit, it will be maximized to the extent that it loses its competitive advantage, and then we’re back to square 1. That is, when everyone uses the same AI, nobody has a competitive advantage over anyone else

    My current theory is that because of this, it is not possible to build an AI that generates a profit perpetually. Only temporarily. Then human intervention would be required to adjust things to make the AI competitive again. But at that point, it’s no longer an AI driving the profit, it’s its human tinkerer

  111. 111. binary132||context
    You’re presuming here that CEOs cause companies to make profit instead of serving as a scapegoat for their often unavoidable market dynamics (at best).
  112. 112. jameslk||context
    In a 1-person company, who or what generates a profit?
  113. 113. root_axis||context
    One person isn't a company. Legally maybe, but there's no point in a company if you can profitably do all the labor yourself.
  114. 114. jameslk||context
    At what point does a company become a company if one person doesn’t make a company? What’s the threshold for non-labor where a company becomes a company?
  115. 115. root_axis||context
    I'd start with division of labor as a minimum.
  116. 116. speleding||context
    There are holding companies with zero employees. They typically pay a management fee to someone.
  117. 117. raegis||context
    Attorneys commonly do this.
  118. 118. sokoloff||context
    I may be able to do all the labor myself, but need investors because I can’t afford the capital.

    I may be able to do all the labor myself, but want to ensure continuity beyond my ability or interest to do the labor myself. (Sometimes this is by my wish; sometimes by the wish of consumers of my service.)

    I may be able to do all the labor myself, but not want to expose my entire net worth to the financial obligations of the company.

    There are plenty of cases where a single person company makes good sense.

  119. 119. binary132||context
    “I am actually the CEO of my basement office business” was not the corporate topology I was addressing with my comment.
  120. 120. kelseyfrog||context
    You're describing the Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall[1], which, I'm sorry, is a Marxist idea so it's automatically wrong.

    1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit...