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Aug 28 15:35 UTC

Don't Wordle (dontwordle.com)

390 points|by Hbruz0||130 comments|Read full story on dontwordle.com

Comments (130)

120 shown|More comments
  1. 1. embedding-shape||context
    This is amazing, and incredible difficult (or I'm terrible), after ~10 minutes I can't even get in a third guess!
  2. 2. rylando||context
    Well this sure makes Wordle feel a lot easier!
  3. 3. whoisnjogu||context
    and I still can't believe it took me more than 3 guesses
  4. 4. massimodeluisa||context
    Ahahhaha funny! xD
  5. 5. MDTHLN||context
    This is quite fun, but I can’t believe the amount of cookies it wants to set!
  6. 6. whstl||context
    I had my ad blocker turned off temporarily and it was a strange experience.
  7. 7. grocery_stores||context
    One thing I find odd about the rules: it forces you to respect what you've learned via green or yellow tiles, but not gray tiles. The spirit of the rules suggests once you've learned a letter is not in the word, you shouldn't be able to reuse that letter. Perhaps that would simply make the game too difficult, though.
  8. 8. kevsim||context
    It didn't let me guess things that had already been eliminated with gray tiles.
  9. 9. ChrisRR||context
    Isn't that rule 3?
  10. 10. pbronez||context
    It does - you can type them but it rejects the word when you submit it.

    I think this DOES make it way harder than regular wordle.

  11. 11. hollylawly||context
    Of course the one time I get it in 2 guesses is in this version
  12. 12. bonzini||context
    Got to the sixth attempt, 2 words remaining, of course I picked the right one.
  13. 13. stavros||context
    I picked the right one out of twelve.
  14. 14. amiga386||context
    Having 12 options possible on the last guess is actually very good.
  15. 15. stavros||context
    It was only my last guess because I lost :P I had three remaining.
  16. 16. skerit||context
    What the hell, same here. My initial guess was "CELLO", from there on I had 32 other possible words and somehow I got the right one?
  17. 17. zaik||context
    My first guess got 3green+2gray. Should have undone immediately.
  18. 18. theanonymousone||context
    I hope NYT lawyers don't come for you. They did for many other variants of this. Maybe reconsider the name?
  19. 19. lugao||context
    Do they go after people using similar names or just any game with similar mechanics?
  20. 20. mh-||context
    Just the trademark, that I've seen.
  21. 21. xigoi||context
    IIUC, game mechanics are not copyrightable.
  22. 22. flexie||context
    We are asked to allow hundreds of cookies, not just a few, to play the game.
  23. 23. Madmallard||context
    yes top of hacker news and loaded with tracking information and a popular game so likely to garner lots of attention
  24. 24. inigyou||context
    What website isn't?

    The most shocking part is that Americans care about appearing to follow GDPR, for some reason. For example, HN blatantly doesn't comply and doesn't plan to.

  25. 25. VonGallifrey||context
    > HN blatantly doesn't comply

    What about HN doesn't comply with GDPR? It does not seem to have tracking cookies.

  26. 26. masfuerte||context
    Apparently they won't delete your old comments if you ask them to.

    I'm someone who goes to somewhat absurd lengths to avoid tracking, but HN's policy doesn't bother me because I know the data exists elsewhere and deleting it here won't make a jot of difference to that.

  27. 27. tialaramex||context
    I'm not entirely sure they'd need to comply. The question is what the purpose of the data being collected was, but seems to me that if you emphasise the whole idea that this is a conversation (which HN does in several ways) then actually "We don't delete comments" is defensible.

    If I'm reading a thread about a problem I'm having in a video game on Reddit and it goes "This is very frustrating because I can't get a rabbit to teleport", then a reply which is [deleted] and then "Oh! Thanks so much, I'd never have figured that out" I'm in exactly the same place as the original poster, but now with the additional agony of knowing that there was a correct solution and that it's hard to figure out what it is - ugh.

  28. 28. inigyou||context
    Right to be forgotten is part of GDPR even though most people only think of cookie banners. There's no one-click export, either.
  29. 29. tialaramex||context
    Like most of the GDPR "Right to be forgotten" is not an absolute right. As you'll quickly discover when you insist that the bank needs to "forget" that you owe them a lot of money, there are plenty of legitimate reasons they can decline to "forget" you despite your invocation of a "right".
  30. 30. awsglkhj||context
    That's cute. Your records are yours. Barring some agreement to the contrary, I have no right to mess with them or inspect them, even if they contain information about me.
  31. 31. gpvos||context
    That's an interesting opinion, but EU law says the opposite.
  32. 32. awsglkhj||context
    EU law only matters to those subject to it.
  33. 33. inigyou||context
    Which is why I questioned American websites complying with GDPR, and pointed out that HN doesn't feel any need to.
  34. 34. snowwrestler||context
    There are now some U.S. state laws that impose requirements for notice and consent.
  35. 35. lugao||context
    It is too hard to be fun :P
  36. 36. huhtenberg||context
    Some of the suggested plays for yellow EA and green H after the first guess:

        ALMEH
        BEKAH
        BELAH
        DEASH
        OBEAH
        SELAH
    
    Not much fun to play with a dictionary like this :-/
  37. 37. pimlottc||context
    And yet it didn’t accept JORTS :/
  38. 38. MarkusQ||context
    I can respect finding JORTS unacceptable.
  39. 39. taneq||context
    Many places don’t accept jorts. :P
  40. 40. burnt-resistor||context
    The goal isn't explained clearly and simply enough.
  41. 41. pasc1878||context
    The goal is to get mony from clicks in "legitimate interest"

    What is legitimate here. You and the site why does any third party have an interest?

  42. 42. netsharc||context
    I'd enjoy it if the rules with some graphics are displayed near the game, for newbies.

    e.g. show a word with some green letters and that they have to be in the same spot in the other word. e.g. FUBAR with green B -> __B__

    FUBAR with yellow R -> RRRR_ (with gray background and white R to signify "has to be placed somewhere here")

    And for the gray letters, I guess.. show them next to the _____ in a trash can?

  43. 43. luciana1u||context
    finally a game that respects that I already know all five-letter words and would rather be told not to use them
  44. 44. Folcon||context
    Is the word list complete?

    I tried WEIRD and it rejected it as not a word

  45. 45. zabzonk||context
    that "i before e except after c" rule often gets taken too seriously
  46. 46. LuminousWzrd||context
    Oh I've messed that one up before
  47. 47. bigfishrunning||context
    i think it's kind of beautiful that weird is a weird word
  48. 48. hnlmorg||context
    Isn’t there more exceptions to that rule than there are examples where it’s correct?
  49. 49. MarkusQ||context
    Yep, at least on most static word lists.

    It's a fun exercise to try and improve the rule by extending it compared to just switching to "E before I".

  50. 50. xigoi||context
    Only if you forget the final part, “…when it sounds like ‘ee’”.
  51. 51. hnlmorg||context
    That’s a recent addendum and is far from universally taught.
  52. 52. intrasight||context
    What does "you have already eliminated the letter T" mean?
  53. 53. astura||context
    The word doesn't contain the letter T.

    It means you previously guessed a word with T in it and it wasn't marked at green (correct spot) or yellow (word contains letter in different spot).

  54. 54. codechicago277||context
    You already guessed a word that had a “T” in it, and the game confirmed that “T” is not in the word. So you can’t guess another word with a “T”.
  55. 55. Angostura||context
    If you enjoy clicking things you can spend hours in their cookie consent boxes untickinv the several hundred individual ‘legitimate interest’ tick boxes for individual vendors
  56. 56. gear54rus||context
    Ublock seems to work with this one.
  57. 57. dec0dedab0de||context
    Yeah, I didn't even see the popup
  58. 58. thi2||context
    No reject all button means a closed tab.
  59. 59. mherdelight||context
    It's not like a "reject all" button actually rejects all. They get to decide what "reject all" means in the, well, popup that you just rejected.
  60. 60. wlesieutre||context
    Only hundreds? I ended up on Thingiverse by accident yesterday it’s

      RESPONSIBLE USE OF YOUR DATA
      We and our 1022 partners…
  61. 61. coldpie||context
    It's your browser's job to protect you, not the website's. There's no guarantee that a "reject all" button does anything, anyway. Instead, just dismiss the banner however and clear the site's cookies in the browser when you're done. On Firefox, you can clear your cookies in 3 clicks, use the little button on the left side of the URL bar and hit "Clear cookies and site data" and then Confirm.
  62. 62. tedmiston||context
    *browser extensions' job
  63. 63. pyrale||context
    Cookie consent usually also covers fingerprinting. Clearing cookies won't protect you from that, not giving your consent may in some jurisdictions.
  64. 64. coldpie||context
    Has that ever been enforced? I don't see any real reason to trust that clicking on a div actually does anything.
  65. 65. simonebrunozzi||context
    Proof that regulation does not work.
  66. 66. mda||context
    I see that terrible cookie permission window (62 legitimate interest) and I close the window,
  67. 67. phren0logy||context
    Be happ-ole? (Insert whistling)
  68. 68. lucideer||context
    I tried playing this as if its wordle & got it in 2 guesses. How do they do this ??? That's next to impossible in wordle & the probalities seem like they should be the same?
  69. 69. f2474l||context
    The game is cheating I guess
  70. 70. tedmiston||context
    By playing Wordle well, you are essentially eliminating as much unknown words as possible each turn, e.g., SALET alone takes 12974 words down to 34 here today.

    But this is like Wordle hard mode with the forced letters, so the optimal strategy is probably to invert and eliminate as little words as possible each turn.

    I got pretty far here using weird words, but PIZZA turned out to be a terrible first guess for Don't Wordle (eliminating ~75% of the words):

        *      12974
        PIZZA   3169
        AQUAS    290
        SAWED     17
        MEASE      7
        LEASH      0
  71. 71. lucideer||context
    Wordle hard mode (which I play) generally limits you to a similar degree as this game - it's less strict programmatically, but anyone willingly opting into hard mode is likely following the same rules as are enforced here.

    So it should be the same.

    (assuming here that you're deliberately attempting to lose this game).

  72. 72. quietbritishjim||context
    I think you really did just get lucky. It does pick a word up front at the start.
  73. 73. amiga386||context
    12935 -> TIZZY (5625) -> OXBOW (2674) -> GRUFF (858) -> MAMMA (195) and I'll let you guess the rest but my next choice left 43 words, and I survived with only 4 words possible.

    The rules not letting use a letter you know isn't in the target word drastically cuts your choices, your best bet is to use as few unique letters per word as you can, and as uncommon letters as you can, but as all normal words need vowels you'll be forced into only picking a vowel from the target word soon enough. Try to find letters that are in the word as late as possible so you're not locked into having to use them.

    Once you are forced to use letters from the target word, avoid placing them in the right place. Sadly there's a rule not letting you use a known letter more than once in a word (once A is known, you can't write ALPHA), and a rule for not letting you put a known letter in a place you know it doesn't go (so after MAMMA, you can't have HALVE because you know there's not an A in second place, nor ALPHA because you know there's not an A in fifth place).

  74. 74. amiga386||context
    The best I could do with today's word, and the wordlist, but no scoring function to minmax the rules:

    - FUFFY (8159) (shipping of Faith and Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

    - IMMIX (4544) (to mix or blend)

    - ZOCCO (2142) (low plinth, from the Italian word for sock)

    - QAJAQ (530) (alternative form of kayak)

    - TRATT (155) (clipping of trattoria)

    - KHAPH (7) (alternative form of khaf, the 11th letter of the Hebrew alphabet)

    I get the feeling that if this game had 7 steps instead of 6, it would almost always be impossible.

  75. 75. Lerc||context
    I had two word possibilities left at the end, so it's possible.
  76. 76. ErikCorry||context
    Theoretically, you could still win today's if there were 8 steps. The ninth is the word you have to avoid.

    I haven't found a way to win today with 9 steps.

    https://gist.github.com/erikcorry/b21723a0ba49c044b03a6030dc...

    Edit: Using some of your words you can get to 9 steps (10 including the word you have to avoid): https://gist.github.com/erikcorry/d55d263b129eb7a56c8c212296...

  77. 77. gowld||context
    > Sadly there's a rule not letting you use a known letter more than once in a word (once A is known, you can't write ALPHA),

    That rule doesn't make sense.

    What if the answer is AORTA, and you want to guess ALBUM and then ALPHA?

  78. 78. amiga386||context
    The sibling comment pointed it out; MAMMA is revealed with one yellow A and one grey A, meaning it has told you there's only one A. If the answer was AORTA, then both As in MAMMA would be yellow.
  79. 79. dylan604||context
    > If the answer was AORTA, then both As in MAMMA would be yellow

    Why would the last A be yellow and not green? It's the correct letter in the correct location. MAMMA should be gray, yellow, gray, gray, green.

  80. 80. amiga386||context
    Oops, yes. In that case, if the answer was AGAIN, both As in MAMMA would be yellow (as opposed to one yellow one grey)
  81. 81. SkiFire13||context
    > Sadly there's a rule not letting you use a known letter more than once in a word (once A is known, you can't write ALPHA)

    This is not entirely correct (or at least it's worded a bit weirdly).

    If you know that A goes in a certain place you can still try a word using A more than once. It's only once you know that A does not appear twice (because you tried a word containing A twice, and the second A way gray!) then you can no longer use A twice.

    In your case you tried MAMMA which contained 2 As and the second one gave you the information that there's no second A.

  82. 82. gpvos||context
    Are there no words with the same letter three or more times?
  83. 83. forbiddenvoid||context
    If there was a second of the same letter, but in the wrong place, it would be yellow. If it's gray, that means there is no repetition of that letter. So once you've seen that the second one is gray, you have the information you need to know that letter is not repeated.
  84. 84. stirfish||context
    Grepping /usr/share/dict/words shows 110 words that have five letters and the same letter 3 or more times, e.g. sassy, added, daddy, nanny, melee, levee, mummy
  85. 85. noknownsender||context
    It also accepted GEESE
  86. 86. fwip||context
    Mamma has 3 M's.
  87. 87. jibal||context
    There obviously are, e.g., mamma.

    What was the point in asking this (irrelevant) question?

  88. 88. gpvos||context
    I read a bit too quickly over "It's only once you know that A does not appear twice", thinking it disregarded the case where A appears three or more times, but if read well that was addressed in the remainder of the sentence.
  89. 89. eptcyka||context
    How many times do distinct letters appear in the word mamma? Do not write code to produce an answer.
  90. 90. tantalor||context
    (meta comment) the chit chat about cookies is off topic and pointless
  91. 91. HelloUsername||context
    (Un)related; does anyone know where to play the non-NYT Wordle version?
  92. 92. teach||context
    The original version of Wordle was purchased by the NYT and then Josh took down his copy, so there's no canonical "non-NYT" version anymore.
  93. 93. dec0dedab0de||context
    I'm sure someone has the original saved somewhere, I had it on an old work computer.
  94. 94. steinvakt2||context
    Cool. Surprisingly difficult. I made an art game inspired by wordle some years ago. My dad and I still play it daily. https://artle.eu
  95. 95. senfiaj||context
    You can use hints, after that I could find the right sequence

    trash smash abash gnash quash clash

  96. 96. JoshTriplett||context
    Disappointing that this seems to only be a "daily" game, and not have a "just play" mode that uses random words. First thing that I look for with any game that presents itself as "daily" is "where's the non-daily mode".
  97. 97. markkat||context
    Nice. I play Last Word daily.

    https://dragonfjord.com/lastword/

    It's the same goal, but everyone starts with the same word each day, which does not include any letters in the "last word".

    No undos in Last Word. My average is 8.7 letters. Really hoping to get it to 9.

  98. 98. noahlt||context
    This is a great demonstration of why Wordle’s Hard Mode is actually easier.
  99. 99. stanmancan||context
    My problem with hard mode is it leaves a lot up to luck. If it was 3 letters and ended in “at” it could be pat, mat, bat, hat, cat, rat, sat, etc. so all you can do is to pick one and hope for the best.
  100. 100. calfuris||context
    It puts a floor on the player's skill. That's not the same as being easier. There are game states that are certainly winnable without hard mode rules but do not allow the player to force a win in hard mode.
  101. 101. tfrancisl||context
    Clicked expecting commentary on why playing NYTs wordle, and perhaps other games, was problematic for some reason. Found a game instead.
  102. 102. nullzzz||context
    The ads, the banners. Immediate exit.
  103. 103. theideaofcoffee||context
    Do you even adblock, bro.
  104. 104. NikolaNovak||context
    Like it, but would love a "No Undo" option, or at least, "don't force undo".

    My friends and I share our wordle results daily. Would like to add this, but so that if you guess in three or four tries, that's OK, that's just your score for the day. Right now game forces me to undo if I have reduced option space to fewer words than there are remaining guesses, and that's quite annoying for how we'd want to play :)

  105. 105. Murfalo||context

        *      12974
        QAJAQ   1979
        PZAZZ    861
        OBANG    449
        URARI    232
        FLAFF     58
        DWALM     10
    
    (totally didn't cheat: https://github.com/murfalo/dontwordle-assistant)
  106. 106. doctorpangloss||context
    Legitimately a much better game than actual Wordle.
  107. 107. rhplus||context
    I sense this is not winnable for all Wordle dictionary words. Is that provably the case?
  108. 108. dontwordle||context
    There are actually a very large number of solutions for every word. I once wrote an algorithm to enumerate all possible solutions for a given word and I was surprised at the results.
  109. 109. jamesforestwest||context
    Funny idea, it turned out to be a bit more difficult than I thought
  110. 110. mryingster||context
    Dang it. I accidentally got the word in two!!!
  111. 111. thomastjeffery||context
    Unfortunately, my goto starter word is 4 green letters.

    It's pretty frustrating to immediately lose, and then have to undo to find out what the word was.

  112. 112. teo_zero||context
    If your first word is four greens it's actually pretty good: you get to know four letters to avoid with just one undo!
  113. 113. thomastjeffery||context
    Sure, but if you count undo as a partial game over (which is heavily implied), it's better to just be able to see what the word is and move on.
  114. 114. teo_zero||context
    > count undo as a partial game over

    Not at all. Contrary to other games where undos are cheating, here they are part of the game. Without them it would be 80% luck and only 20% strategy.

    > which is heavily implied

    I can't find anything that implies this. It explicitly says:

    > This uses undos deliberately rather than only as an emergency

    while avoiding undos is mentioned at the end as "The Purist approach", which I read as slightly mocking.

    I see it like a chess problem where you have to find the best sequence of moves, so you start off with an intial move, then backtrack, explore another idea, etc. Not like a chess match where of course you cannot undo any move.

  115. 115. gpvos||context
    It took me a minute to find out that I needed to close the instructions to see the actual game. A Play button would have been nice.
  116. 116. dang||context
    Related:

    Show HN: Can you lose at Wordle if you tried? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31572258 - May 2022 (236 comments)

  117. 117. catoc||context
    I had to deny hundreds of tracking “partners” wanting to place cookies - without a ‘reject all’ option - before I could even access the website…

    So Don’t Access Don’t Wordle

  118. 118. dontwordle||context
    Wow I can't believe this showed up on the front page years later. That's fun! I am still new to using Google AdSense and am enjoying the wrath of HN on this thread! Hope everyone can still enjoy the game today. Thank you for the feedback!
  119. 119. wafflebot||context
    got it on 2nd turn. I am terrible at this.
  120. 120. skerit||context
    So including me, you're like the fourth person in this section to get it on the second turn. That's peculiar.