Semaglutide does an incredible job of keeping my autoimmune issues in check. The only side effect I've had is needing to drink more water or else I feel like I've got the flu. Minimal tradeoff IMO
No, if that’s all it was then ME/CFS would be a cake walk and it isn’t. I have such a crazy restrictive diet and have had for a long time that one of my issues was being kicked out of doctor's offices for looking too healthy. The diet is necessary but not sufficient.
I'm in the same boat! I look very healthy, I'm young and most of my bloodwork is great but I have many autoimmune symptoms. I started on semaglutide 1 week ago and your comment brings me hope.
I started on an extremely small dose and worked up very slowly because I predicted and did in-fact have hyperactivity to it. I got gastroparisis and the associated huge amount of vomiting, couldn’t eat for the first few weeks. But slowly over the course of 3-6 months I was having few and fewer bad days. I take a bunch of other meds as well but this one is one of the most effective. I also do LDN, Amitryptiline, Modafinil, TUDCA, DIM, low dose of TRT and Ipamorelin/ModGRF. I eat the absolute minimum in sugar, one meal per day, and that is usually a large kale salad. The Modafinil / Amitryptiline is probably the most effective treatment I’ve tried, followed by the semaglutide, then the TRT/hGH peptides.
Super interesting - my friend has ME/CFS and/or Fibromyalgia and started GLP-1 but seemed to get only the negative side effects and not much benefit. Using Zepbound specifically.
Is the Modafinil used for alertness or a different off label purpose? I'm always interested in potential helpful interventions.
I remember reading the Hazada paradox, where they found these Hadza tribe members who live an active life, walking miles, hunting, and doing all physical labour, have the same maintenance calories as a Western person.
So where does the energy burn in a sedentary population come from vs highly active Hadza tribe members?
Pontzer’s research showed that while the Hadza were highly active, they actually demonstrated lower baselines of certain markers of metabolic and physiological stress over time compared to Western populations.
Don't quote me on this; I am paraphrasing things I remember from.
> Nonetheless, average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hadza foragers was no different than that of Westerners after controlling for body size. The metabolic cost of walking (kcal kg−1 m−1) and resting (kcal kg−1 s−1) were also similar among Hadza and Western groups. The similarity in metabolic rates across a broad range of cultures challenges current models of obesity suggesting that Western lifestyles lead to decreased energy expenditure.
> So where does the energy burn in a sedentary population come from vs highly active Hadza tribe members?
P.S.: One theory I've seen is that the extra sedentary-spend is in the immune-system, which may have both beneficial and harmful effects, depending on whether it's doing useful work versus causing problems.
true but you'll struggle getting tons of calories out of whole foods.
This is why mass gainers are popular, underweight people find it hard to gain weight so they dirty bulking using fast food which is often calorie dense.
Eating healthy food alone isn't solution, you need to make your life active as well.
The glycemic index also comes into play. It essentially measures how much certain foods keeps you full regardless of calories. So healthy food, even if you’re consuming the same calories as junk food, is going to keep you full longer.
Your first sent once and your last sentence don't align.
Yes. Fruits are healthy. One orange is healthy. 10 oranges are unhealthy. Same concept applies to water. Drinking too much can be unhealthy as well, but that doesn't change the fact that water is good.
No with the fiber that’s perfectly fine. The slow release of sugar is perfectly fine. Obesity is the main risk for insulin, fast release sugar is bad for insulin via obesity not on its own.
I think there's a bit of a caveat there, because that basically means eating reasonably high calorie food in sufficient quantities that starts violating the "healthy food" definition.
That's the problem with the definition of "healthy". No single food is "healthy" on it's own. It's a wrong way to look at it and why most people fail at finding a good diet. There's no super food you can just eat unlimited amounts of.
A diet can be healthy if it's the nutrient combination of different foods that result in certain number of calories, protein, fat, carbs, minerals and vitamins per unit of time.
There was a study comparing big and small eaters with and without obesitas. Turns out that skinny people who eat a lot eat also eat a lot of fat and protein and that fat people who eat almost nothing eat mostly carbs and sugar.
>Pediatricians should support policies that seek to reduce the consumption of fruit juice and promote the consumption of whole fruit by toddlers and young children already exposed to juices.
> People can get fat by eating too much healthy food.
It's a lot harder, as many of the comments mentioned, because of caloric density and lack of appetite hacks (sugar, salt).
A can of Mountain Dew is 170 kcal + 46g of sugar.
A navel orange is ~75 kcal + 13g of sugar + 3.2g of fiber + 1.25g of protein.
So take someone from Appalachia with a 4 can / day habit (modest), and that's ~10-12 oranges. That's a lot of oranges to not get sick of eating.
Which is where I think the sugar + salt difference comes in.
It's far easier to overload on the same food when it's stuffed with these appetite attractants than a caloric equivalent of healthy food, because the health food will taste more similar (read: like itself), which will eventually get boring.
I consumed +11lbs (5.1kg) of food yesterday for only 2,500kcal
If you have a stomach and appetite that are capable of consuming the 15 to 20 lb you need to eat 3,500 to 4,000 calories of similar foods, you ought to call a research lab
Intentionally eating good food is a lot more about where your head is at than what you’re eating, like any other devices. You can better understand the mentality of a person by their diet that they evolved through personal experience.
If you want the real answer, people suck at shopping for groceries and don't know how or want to cook.
Long before LLMs, there was a different but similarly misguided hype around making food more convenient. Making money off ignorance is not "innovation", but we live in a world convinced by arrogant and pretentious fearmongering liars.
As always, just do it yourself. It's not that hard after all.
Does food noise exist in active tribal people (if so why they have less proportion of obese people?) or is it something which happens to sedentary people?
Does drug addiction? Because food noise should be viewed through that lens, and I’m no expert but I suspect our modern non tribal life and culture is the root of our abundant addiction issues.
I suspect it does, but their ability to act upon it is significantly different. Perhaps if they had hot pockets and Taco Bell, they would have similar problems.
Addiction-like behaviors related to food transcend not only human culture but also even other species.
Yes. I'm saying that it goes away when you fix your diet.
Do you know what nutrients are? Deficiencies are the cause of the noise. This is an evolutionary feature, not a bug. Your body is expecting you to keep eating alternatives until you eventually stumble onto the foods that make you feel better and then keep eating those. In severe cases you might need more patience with the right foods, but if you already feel like crap and you know you just started barely eating healthier, why stop now?
This search process has been somewhat disrupted by our modern environment, but it's not like the good food isn't right there. On the other hand, you don't need trial and error anymore. There's plenty of information available. You can even go see a doctor and get a blood test to confirm both your deficiencies and everything else I just said.
Does that answer your question?
EDIT: to reply to replies below and I am "posting too fast"...
TLDR: Y'all need to see a doctor.
I used to weigh 400 lbs, had a bad enough drinking problem to cause numbness in my legs (B12 deficiency to boot), and a sky high A1C. I recovered 100% after a decade of this self abuse. Doctor didn't bat an eye back then nor when I recovered a couple of years later. They see it all the time and my "success" story is very common. Most of us understandably find this all too embarrassing to shout about online. We'd get drowned out by influencers trying to sell you crap anyway.
Also, sorry not trying to be callous, but long term deficiencies can cause permanent damage. If you're still experiencing "food noise" after a serious attempt at a planned diet (and magically never had any other symptoms warning you of the impending damage) I have some doubts, but that's a whole different topic.
Anecdotally: no, it doesn't. Maybe it did for you. I spent most of a year once on a predesigned meal plan, and the only thing it changed about the low-key but constant food noise was better knowing when I had a safe margin to indulge a little bit.
It answers the question, but you are simply wrong, as anyone who has tried to lose significant weight knows from personal experience, and as countless studies have confirmed again and again.
My wife saw many doctors. For her the food noise is related to PCOS and insuline resistance. Ozempic helped until it didn't. You are being callous even with your disclaimer.
I eat a perfect diet of moslty vegetables, chicken and fish, I cook my own food and know what's in it.
I just eat too much of it, because food tastes good and it's a source of dopamine for me. Like most people with food noise.
Also when I get up and finish eating, within 30 minutes my brain is thinking what's going to be the next meal I eat. Food noise.
Yes, some people can lose massive amounts of weight by "just eting right", my brother in law lost 20kg by just not drinking beer anymore. I haven't had a beer in 3 years and didn't lose a single kg. Food noise.
Eating disorders are mental health condition. Just because there are a lot of visible "false" cases, it doesn't mean that someone else is not living it for real. Your comment is insensitive
Agreed, and often the root cause is something else in a person’s life (stress, feelings of losing control etc ).
Adding new labels related to food doesn’t do anything to fix the underlying conditions and if anything distracts from them and points the blame at food and physiology, which is not often the root cause of over or under eating.
these types of (modern) eating disorders are a product of our current market, and I think that blaming humans for eating wrong due to 'food noise' when many shelves have little else to offer is insensitive victim blaming.
the perpetrators are the people selling poison under false auspices.
we're not blaming people with pica for eating drywall.
We're blaming profiteers for shoveling garbage into the mouth of anyone with a buck while systematically lobbying to maximize garbage advertising and minimize actual food where feasible and simultaneously incentivizing sales groups as much as is profitable -- all the while trying to convince medical professionals and scientists to produce overtly narrow results to support the public consumption through bogus 'science' papers.
It does which is why medically supervised weight loss with GLP1s includes diet recommendations to mitigate this.
But in my experience, decreased cravings make it easier to choose food rationally. The food noise that causes people to overeat usually doesn’t cause them to overeat healthy foods anyway.
> But in my experience, decreased cravings make it easier to choose food rationally. The food noise that causes people to overeat usually doesn’t cause them to overeat healthy foods anyway.
"Food noise" is much more than just craving calories, we have cravings for most of the different nutrients we need. That is how people ate a balanced diet in history even though it was much harder to do back then, peasants craved meat and vegetables even though it was easier to just eat potatoes for calories.
Specifically for me it makes junk food unpleasant. My diet is now impeccable. I hardly ever have a takeaway and if I do it needs to be something that is not greasy and is good clean food.
I also find drinking alcohol much less pleasant. I still drink sometimes but after a few beers or glasses of wine it starts to become very unappealing and I stop.
I do bodybuilding and I’m still getting my 150g of protein in.
I’m barely overweight and I’m losing weight very slowly but I’ve decided I’m likely to stay on GLP’s long term, if not forever, just because the lifestyle changes have been so incredibly good.
Perhaps this helps dispel the myth that GLP drugs inherently = relentless starvation.
You don't desire to brush your teeth (at least not in the way that you desire to consume calorie-dense foods). But you manage to still do it anyway. (maybe not you specifically, but people in general) You can make the same choice about nutrition. The lowered desire makes it easier/possible to do this
My personal experience is like getting eye glasses for your appetite. Easier to eat reasonably sized portions and they're nutritionally well-balanced.
Also the late night cravings are more specific: instead of vague "need to eat something", it's "I'd love a tomato" or "mmm yogurt" or "actually a load of carbs would hit the spot".
You lose your appetite but can still shove things in your pie hole. You just have to make an effort to shove vegetables and protein in, rather than making an effort resist eating junk food.
I had the same experience, but not with GLP-1 drugs, but by upping my protein intake to about 0.7g per pound of body weight.
Night and day, stopped always being hungry... I've tried Noom before (eating highly filling, low calorie foods, but filling, not satiating), but that only worked while I was tracking (and always forcing myself to keep it up)...
Losing weight required work on top of that, but the protein just made my hunger response start working properly again.
People talk a lot about meat, but not enough about dairy. My prayers were answered at the altars of feta, greek yogurt, half and half, butter, cottage cheese, etc. They made salads not suck. They opened up a ton of lower carb dessert options. My gut health improved. All of my health improved.
I no longer treat these humble foods as optional extras. They perfectly fill the gap in my daily protein needs. They were never unwelcome, just forgotten.
I recall reading a metastudy of EU studies about 10 years ago, where they focused on three different diet classes: calorie counting, low carb, high protein.
Calorie counting diets had no restrictions on what they ate, as long as the participants didn't exceed the calorie target.
Low carb (Atkins) had no calorie restriction but had to restrict carbs.
High protein also didn't have calorie restriction but participants had to ensure at least 20% of the calories in meals were proteins.
They found that while all helped people lose weight, only the high-protein made it stick reliably.
I used that as basis for my own weight loss and it worked very well for me. As you said it made me full in a different way. YMMV.
I have lost 30lbs this year and even the difference between .5 and .7 is noticeable to me.
There is also the variable that you can work out too much. I did a brutal 30 minute glycolytic conditioning session on Friday and it just doesn't matter how much protein I consume the next day. Something with ghrelin goes off the chart and the next day takes huge will power to not just eat everything.
I think it is even worse with max effort weight lifting.
As a counter example, I found myself unable to eat anything at all even with anti nausea meds, and my head utterly in a fog that felt like I was becoming ill.
I'm on GLP-1 and it's completely stopped my urge to online shop. I used to browse/shop for fun and out of habit or when I was stressed out or wanted a treat etc. Entirely resolved! I've also lost 40lbs on it.
I'm curious, has it affected pleasure at all in other areas of life? Are things you used to enjoy still as enjoyable? Is it more the "addictiveness" of things that has dropped, as opposed to how enjoyable they are?
(Never tried them myself, but very intrigued by them.)
I went on them because I started boomeranging back after a long and very successful diet. It was pretty much the plan - I wanted to get as far as I could "naturally" and then use GLP-1's to bring me the rest of the way and keep me there, but I was surprised at just how rapidly I started adding weight again.
It stopped me cold and has gotten me almost back down at the lowest I was at after my diet so far and I keep losing at a slower pace but basically without effort.
In terms of pleasure, I'd say mostly no with some caveats. I have fewer snacks, and drink less coke, and I enjoyed both. I don't find chocolate or baked goods as enticing any more, but it's not stopped me from enjoying them on occasion.
It's more that it's stopped me from wanting them as often. I find it easier to tell myself not to grab a snack when I'm already full in particular. Before I might overeat to the point of discomfort.
So when I now actively choose to enjoy those things, I'm more likely to actually enjoy the whole experience.
I'd say the exception is probably coke, which I do find less enjoyable.
It's more like...you just don't want them? It's kind of wild. The first week I took them, I discovered there was a loop in my brain that was constantly thinking about food, and I never realized until it got switched off.
That's the best way I can describe it. I could basically always eat before and now I just...don't feel like it lol.
I will say, they are rough when you first start out on them. During the 1st 6-8 weeks I had several instances of maaaaaybe five seconds of warning between feeling nauseated and vomiting.
It settles down after a couple months and it was never bad enough to be a dealbreaker, but it's a fun time.
I definitely used to use food as a source of joy, so I had try to and find things to replace that. I got really into getting my nails done, nail art and perfume/fragrances to help fill the joy gap. Also exercise and audiobooks.
I had to conscientiously try and find new "fun" things in my life to replace food, which used to be my treat/highlight of my life lol.
I notice a little less joy, pizza used to make me soooo happy lol. Now even if I have pizza- which I still totally can, I just accommodate for it, but it's just like... okay, whatever here's some pizza, cool. I can have 1 or 2 slices and feel fine and not go hog on the entire thing and have it be this amazing fantastic binge.
First, I eat...but seem to get full fast. Its like before, my body would really delay sending me the "you're full now" signal while eating, but now it starts to come half way through my plate. But did I enjoy the food? Hell yeah. It might even taste better. And because I get full quicker, I eat slower so I can enjoy it more.
Outside of eating, I drink less, but do have occasional beers. I enjoy them.
And my relationships are not less fulfilling, and I don't find my life and work less interesting. All in all, the only thing I don't like is the occasional "egg" burps I get from it.
Do you honestly believe in the so called “free lunch”? I mean there are MANY substances you can presently take that make you feel way better, but always come with a cost or a downside. Why should we believe GLP-1 class drugs are any different?
All drugs have side effects and downsides. The question should be if the benefits outweigh the costs, not if the drug is pure magic. Obviously its not pure magic, nothing is, but its still a useful drug.
We already know the downsides (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5397288/). The family of drugs has been in use since 2005 for controlling glucose with diabetes. The only new thing is the mass-market use when it turned out to also reduce the physio-mental effects of cravings (food but also apparently other things) in general.
It definitely has downsides- it's $$, you have to take a shot every single week, I need to make sure to eat enough fiber now or I will not be regular. But that's a positive lifestyle change anyways- essentially am diligent now to ensure I get fiber every single day!
For me the pros outweigh the cons, I don't obsess over food constantly, my belt size went down and my watch band closed a few notches and even my dental hygienist mentioned last week my face was thinner. Overall it's a huge win.
I pay out of pocket $450 a month for it and it's worth it. The money I saw from no more online shopping habit and no more doordashing or drinking probably breaks even.
> Do you honestly believe in the so called “free lunch”?
Yes. Why not? A body is a complex biomechanical system, that can be influenced by certain chemicals. Some of them can solve the underlying problem.
Why everything has to be a morality play?
> Why should we believe GLP-1 class drugs are any different?
Why are they any different from, say, antiretroviral drugs? Or from something like statins?
I started the GLP-1 drugs with liraglutide, a predecessor of Ozempic. It works similarly but its half-life is just several hours, so you had to get a daily injection. It has been in use for two decades by now with great results.
Antibiotics are pretty much a free lunch but they exist. Completely stops deadly disease without causing any long term damage. They exist it's just rare
I know people who have had miraculous benefits from psych meds. No downside. Using them for years. Or if there is a downside it’s massively outweighed by the upside.
To the others on this reply, I take 1/4 dose of the "clinical dose" and it has been life changing. I've lost 30 lbs. I've done that in the past, but for me that was harder than ranger school in the army.
I LOVE food. Eating out and family dinner were always important to me. I was very worried that I would lose my pleasure in this.
I haven't.
But now I can just eat 1/2 slice of pie. Or 1 scoop of ice cream, etc etc. I don't have the crazy urge to EAT IT ALL.
Also I loved drinking. I actually still love drinking. But I get done at 2.5 drinks. And once a week.
It adds up. Makes you wonder what free will is.Variance in GLPs are naturally occuring. I find the people who say "I forgot to eat" relatable now. Our bodies were not designed for abundance. At least not mine.
I've been on Mounjaro for a couple of years. Unfortunately this effect seems to plateau somewhat and you have to bump your dose. I've changed doses 3 times now, so I'm pretty familiar with how long each increase lasts. It still provides some appetite control, but those initial gains, or the honeymoon phase, definitely tapers. Still, I'm better off being on it versus not and I think it allows me to maintain a healthy weight easier. Plus reap all the other benefits we're learning more about.
I’m at 7.5mg now so can’t speak to any doses higher than that. But I’m assuming each step up would reintroduce more appetite control and reduce food noise and then level back off a bit. Not saying the effects go to zero, just that they start off more pronounced.
I got severely downvoted in the past for badmouthing GLP1s here. Then I did my research, got on them and I take it all back. These things are on par with statins in terms of potential societal impacts.
GLP1s are one of today's real, true, modern miracles. It deserves a Nobel, but not to one person, but the teams upon teams upon teams that made it possible to get here.
There's anecdotal accounts of GLP meds helping with a range of addictions. Of course in science anecdotal accounts are the lowest tier of evidence, that's only top shelf in law.
The best way I can describe it: my body and mind are no longer is in starvation mode. I plan, do, act and sleep well.
Is the Modafinil used for alertness or a different off label purpose? I'm always interested in potential helpful interventions.
So where does the energy burn in a sedentary population come from vs highly active Hadza tribe members?
Pontzer’s research showed that while the Hadza were highly active, they actually demonstrated lower baselines of certain markers of metabolic and physiological stress over time compared to Western populations.
Don't quote me on this; I am paraphrasing things I remember from.
> Nonetheless, average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hadza foragers was no different than that of Westerners after controlling for body size. The metabolic cost of walking (kcal kg−1 m−1) and resting (kcal kg−1 s−1) were also similar among Hadza and Western groups. The similarity in metabolic rates across a broad range of cultures challenges current models of obesity suggesting that Western lifestyles lead to decreased energy expenditure.
> So where does the energy burn in a sedentary population come from vs highly active Hadza tribe members?
P.S.: One theory I've seen is that the extra sedentary-spend is in the immune-system, which may have both beneficial and harmful effects, depending on whether it's doing useful work versus causing problems.
What does it mean? If a drug reduces your desire to eat food, wouldn't it also decrease your desire to eat food beneficial for your body?
I think the effect most people want is to stop craving junk food but still eat nutritious food required for muscle growth and health.
I've heard it widely described as reducing mental noise around food.
Eating healthy food alone isn't solution, you need to make your life active as well.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/glycemic-index-vs-load-521436...
In some video a woman was eating 8-10 Oranges a day just as a snack on the side.
No knowledge about sugar or calroies, just the thought "but its a fruit its health". No fruits are not healthy
Yes. Fruits are healthy. One orange is healthy. 10 oranges are unhealthy. Same concept applies to water. Drinking too much can be unhealthy as well, but that doesn't change the fact that water is good.
You made that up tho.
Its an issue if you drink orange juice not when you eat it. Eating takes longer and is getting balanced from the fiber.
A diet can be healthy if it's the nutrient combination of different foods that result in certain number of calories, protein, fat, carbs, minerals and vitamins per unit of time.
Healthy in a way, but surprisingly a lot of sugar ( either added or from the fruits)
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/139/6/e20170...
>Pediatricians should support policies that seek to reduce the consumption of fruit juice and promote the consumption of whole fruit by toddlers and young children already exposed to juices.
It's a lot harder, as many of the comments mentioned, because of caloric density and lack of appetite hacks (sugar, salt).
A can of Mountain Dew is 170 kcal + 46g of sugar.
A navel orange is ~75 kcal + 13g of sugar + 3.2g of fiber + 1.25g of protein.
So take someone from Appalachia with a 4 can / day habit (modest), and that's ~10-12 oranges. That's a lot of oranges to not get sick of eating.
Which is where I think the sugar + salt difference comes in.
It's far easier to overload on the same food when it's stuffed with these appetite attractants than a caloric equivalent of healthy food, because the health food will taste more similar (read: like itself), which will eventually get boring.
If you have a stomach and appetite that are capable of consuming the 15 to 20 lb you need to eat 3,500 to 4,000 calories of similar foods, you ought to call a research lab
Long before LLMs, there was a different but similarly misguided hype around making food more convenient. Making money off ignorance is not "innovation", but we live in a world convinced by arrogant and pretentious fearmongering liars.
As always, just do it yourself. It's not that hard after all.
Addiction-like behaviors related to food transcend not only human culture but also even other species.
Do you know what nutrients are? Deficiencies are the cause of the noise. This is an evolutionary feature, not a bug. Your body is expecting you to keep eating alternatives until you eventually stumble onto the foods that make you feel better and then keep eating those. In severe cases you might need more patience with the right foods, but if you already feel like crap and you know you just started barely eating healthier, why stop now?
This search process has been somewhat disrupted by our modern environment, but it's not like the good food isn't right there. On the other hand, you don't need trial and error anymore. There's plenty of information available. You can even go see a doctor and get a blood test to confirm both your deficiencies and everything else I just said.
Does that answer your question?
EDIT: to reply to replies below and I am "posting too fast"...
TLDR: Y'all need to see a doctor.
I used to weigh 400 lbs, had a bad enough drinking problem to cause numbness in my legs (B12 deficiency to boot), and a sky high A1C. I recovered 100% after a decade of this self abuse. Doctor didn't bat an eye back then nor when I recovered a couple of years later. They see it all the time and my "success" story is very common. Most of us understandably find this all too embarrassing to shout about online. We'd get drowned out by influencers trying to sell you crap anyway.
Also, sorry not trying to be callous, but long term deficiencies can cause permanent damage. If you're still experiencing "food noise" after a serious attempt at a planned diet (and magically never had any other symptoms warning you of the impending damage) I have some doubts, but that's a whole different topic.
Anecdotally: no, it doesn't. Maybe it did for you. I spent most of a year once on a predesigned meal plan, and the only thing it changed about the low-key but constant food noise was better knowing when I had a safe margin to indulge a little bit.
I just eat too much of it, because food tastes good and it's a source of dopamine for me. Like most people with food noise.
Also when I get up and finish eating, within 30 minutes my brain is thinking what's going to be the next meal I eat. Food noise.
Yes, some people can lose massive amounts of weight by "just eting right", my brother in law lost 20kg by just not drinking beer anymore. I haven't had a beer in 3 years and didn't lose a single kg. Food noise.
Agreed, and often the root cause is something else in a person’s life (stress, feelings of losing control etc ).
Adding new labels related to food doesn’t do anything to fix the underlying conditions and if anything distracts from them and points the blame at food and physiology, which is not often the root cause of over or under eating.
the perpetrators are the people selling poison under false auspices.
we're not blaming people with pica for eating drywall.
We're blaming profiteers for shoveling garbage into the mouth of anyone with a buck while systematically lobbying to maximize garbage advertising and minimize actual food where feasible and simultaneously incentivizing sales groups as much as is profitable -- all the while trying to convince medical professionals and scientists to produce overtly narrow results to support the public consumption through bogus 'science' papers.
But in my experience, decreased cravings make it easier to choose food rationally. The food noise that causes people to overeat usually doesn’t cause them to overeat healthy foods anyway.
"Food noise" is much more than just craving calories, we have cravings for most of the different nutrients we need. That is how people ate a balanced diet in history even though it was much harder to do back then, peasants craved meat and vegetables even though it was easier to just eat potatoes for calories.
I also find drinking alcohol much less pleasant. I still drink sometimes but after a few beers or glasses of wine it starts to become very unappealing and I stop.
I do bodybuilding and I’m still getting my 150g of protein in.
I’m barely overweight and I’m losing weight very slowly but I’ve decided I’m likely to stay on GLP’s long term, if not forever, just because the lifestyle changes have been so incredibly good.
Perhaps this helps dispel the myth that GLP drugs inherently = relentless starvation.
Also the late night cravings are more specific: instead of vague "need to eat something", it's "I'd love a tomato" or "mmm yogurt" or "actually a load of carbs would hit the spot".
Night and day, stopped always being hungry... I've tried Noom before (eating highly filling, low calorie foods, but filling, not satiating), but that only worked while I was tracking (and always forcing myself to keep it up)...
Losing weight required work on top of that, but the protein just made my hunger response start working properly again.
People talk a lot about meat, but not enough about dairy. My prayers were answered at the altars of feta, greek yogurt, half and half, butter, cottage cheese, etc. They made salads not suck. They opened up a ton of lower carb dessert options. My gut health improved. All of my health improved.
I no longer treat these humble foods as optional extras. They perfectly fill the gap in my daily protein needs. They were never unwelcome, just forgotten.
Calorie counting diets had no restrictions on what they ate, as long as the participants didn't exceed the calorie target.
Low carb (Atkins) had no calorie restriction but had to restrict carbs.
High protein also didn't have calorie restriction but participants had to ensure at least 20% of the calories in meals were proteins.
They found that while all helped people lose weight, only the high-protein made it stick reliably.
I used that as basis for my own weight loss and it worked very well for me. As you said it made me full in a different way. YMMV.
There is also the variable that you can work out too much. I did a brutal 30 minute glycolytic conditioning session on Friday and it just doesn't matter how much protein I consume the next day. Something with ghrelin goes off the chart and the next day takes huge will power to not just eat everything.
I think it is even worse with max effort weight lifting.
(Never tried them myself, but very intrigued by them.)
It stopped me cold and has gotten me almost back down at the lowest I was at after my diet so far and I keep losing at a slower pace but basically without effort.
In terms of pleasure, I'd say mostly no with some caveats. I have fewer snacks, and drink less coke, and I enjoyed both. I don't find chocolate or baked goods as enticing any more, but it's not stopped me from enjoying them on occasion.
It's more that it's stopped me from wanting them as often. I find it easier to tell myself not to grab a snack when I'm already full in particular. Before I might overeat to the point of discomfort.
So when I now actively choose to enjoy those things, I'm more likely to actually enjoy the whole experience.
I'd say the exception is probably coke, which I do find less enjoyable.
That's the best way I can describe it. I could basically always eat before and now I just...don't feel like it lol.
I will say, they are rough when you first start out on them. During the 1st 6-8 weeks I had several instances of maaaaaybe five seconds of warning between feeling nauseated and vomiting.
It settles down after a couple months and it was never bad enough to be a dealbreaker, but it's a fun time.
I had to conscientiously try and find new "fun" things in my life to replace food, which used to be my treat/highlight of my life lol.
I notice a little less joy, pizza used to make me soooo happy lol. Now even if I have pizza- which I still totally can, I just accommodate for it, but it's just like... okay, whatever here's some pizza, cool. I can have 1 or 2 slices and feel fine and not go hog on the entire thing and have it be this amazing fantastic binge.
Outside of eating, I drink less, but do have occasional beers. I enjoy them.
And my relationships are not less fulfilling, and I don't find my life and work less interesting. All in all, the only thing I don't like is the occasional "egg" burps I get from it.
For me the pros outweigh the cons, I don't obsess over food constantly, my belt size went down and my watch band closed a few notches and even my dental hygienist mentioned last week my face was thinner. Overall it's a huge win.
I pay out of pocket $450 a month for it and it's worth it. The money I saw from no more online shopping habit and no more doordashing or drinking probably breaks even.
Yes. Why not? A body is a complex biomechanical system, that can be influenced by certain chemicals. Some of them can solve the underlying problem.
Why everything has to be a morality play?
> Why should we believe GLP-1 class drugs are any different?
Why are they any different from, say, antiretroviral drugs? Or from something like statins?
I started the GLP-1 drugs with liraglutide, a predecessor of Ozempic. It works similarly but its half-life is just several hours, so you had to get a daily injection. It has been in use for two decades by now with great results.
I know people who have had miraculous benefits from psych meds. No downside. Using them for years. Or if there is a downside it’s massively outweighed by the upside.
I LOVE food. Eating out and family dinner were always important to me. I was very worried that I would lose my pleasure in this.
I haven't.
But now I can just eat 1/2 slice of pie. Or 1 scoop of ice cream, etc etc. I don't have the crazy urge to EAT IT ALL.
Also I loved drinking. I actually still love drinking. But I get done at 2.5 drinks. And once a week.
It adds up. Makes you wonder what free will is.Variance in GLPs are naturally occuring. I find the people who say "I forgot to eat" relatable now. Our bodies were not designed for abundance. At least not mine.
I tried them and my health got massively worse and I couldn’t eat at all, on a sub minimum dose.
I put them just under antibiotics. In terms of quality of life years given back at a population scale.
I've read experiences from people on illicit substances that claimed they helped them quit.
It would be beat if this carried over to things like caffeine/nicotine/thc/etc.