NewsLab
Jun 28 20:19 UTC

Long Wave radio era set to end with switch-off (economist.com)

178 points|by edward||163 comments|Read full story on economist.com
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c74yn7v7k4qo

Comments (163)

120 shown|More comments
  1. 1. ChrisArchitect||context
  2. 2. _whiteCaps_||context
    Seems like everyone's shutting down radio services. CHU and Weather radio in Canada too :(
  3. 3. mschuster91||context
    These transmitters consume insane amounts of power. Per Wikipedia, that's 500 kW of rated transmission power for this one [1], so probably a solid megawatt of grid power input.

    At 30 ct/kWh, that's 300€ per hour, 7200€ per day and about 2.6 million € a year - for a customer base that is only decreasing.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droitwich_Transmitting_Station

  4. 4. reaperducer||context
    Is that emitted power, consumed power, or effective radiated power? Without knowing that, your power calculations have no meaning.

    Radio stations are usually measured by the last of those: Effective radiated power.

    You can have a radio station with a 50,000 watt ERP, but running only a 2,500 watt transmitter.

    For FM radio stations, it's all about the height of the transmitter above average terrain. For AM, it's about the ground conductivity and frequency.

    I once worked at a 1,000-watt AM station that had a signal much larger and clearer signal than the 5,000-watt AM station a few miles away.

    I'm not a radio engineer, but I'm sure there are plenty on HN who can correct and clarify what I've written.

  5. 5. BuildTheRobots||context
    Also bear in mind that Droitwitch is radiating 3 different services. Talk Sport (1053 kHz), Radio 4 (198 kHz) and Radio Five Live (693 kHz).

    My suspicion is that this means an exciter and a stack of amps per service, which then go through a two stage combiner and out to the antenna. There might even be a pair of exciters and amps per service depending on redundancy.

    The combiners (certainly for FM/DAB/TV services) also cause cumulative attenuation as the signal gets combined each time, so even if all 3 are radiating at the same power, the first in the chain might need twice as much amplification to make up for losses.

    edit: MB21 (of course) has some fantastic technical info about Droitwitch: https://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=1454&page... and there's some great pics here, too: https://www.radiorewind.co.uk/radio1/droitwich.htm

    I believe they're still using a pair of Marconi B6042 transmitters (250kW each, in parallel) to provide at least one of the services.

  6. 6. fredoralive||context
    As far as I know the medium wave services aren’t transmitted from the same antenna as Radio 4 LW, they have separate antenna, albeit with one of them (5 Live) doubling up as one of the support towers for the large long wave T antenna slung between the two large towers on site. Although I suspect the plan would be to move 5 Live to the currently unused Absolute / Virgin antenna eventually so they can demolish the long wave setup.
  7. 7. BuildTheRobots||context
    You're absolutely right and I was flagrantly wrong - Droitwich does use different antennas for the different LW and MF services (though still has to combine the output of two transmitters for the same service to increase the power and offer redundancy).

    I was very much getting myself confused with some of their other transmission sites where they take multiple DAB or DTV services, modulate, amplify and combine them and then broadcast through the same antenna.

  8. 8. mschuster91||context
    > Is that emitted power, consumed power, or effective radiated power?

    Going by [1], emitted power.

    [1] https://www.bbceng.info/Operations/transmitter_ops/Reminisce...

  9. 9. BuildTheRobots||context
    I can't edit my previous comment (which incorrectly implied that the 3 stations at Droitwitch are going out of the same antenna), but I've done more research and have more information.

    Droitwitch LW's antenna uses a T-aerial suspended between two 210m steel masts acting as massive capacitive top-loaded vertical monopole. The signal isn't beamed or shaped, it propagates omnidirectionally and this style of antenna offers _0 dB_ of ERP increase.

    Even worse, they're transmitting AM, so the power output dynamically increases with the volume of the analogue audio being transmitted. If you cut off the input to Droitwitch, it'd still be putting out a 500kW carrier wave. When audio is applied the amplitude of the carrier is modulated, so for peak loudness (someone shouting or the loudest spike in music) it can take an extra 50% power to create the upper and lower sidebands - at peak, the Vapotron tubes could be putting out a combined 750kW.

    The amplification stage is only ~70% efficient as well, so at peak power it's possible that the site is pulling nearly 1MW from the grid.

    --

    Compared to a modern UHF DTV transmitter station the differences are wild. The big transmitter near me is putting out 6* DTV MUX's at 174kW ERP each, but that's through a 15dBd UHF array at the top of the mast which gives an obscene amount of gain.

    - Mains draw at the wall ~150kW (including cooling and ancillary systems).

    - Total TPO (RF energy leaving the cabs) from each of the six transmitters is only ~52kW combined (8.7kW each)

    - Output of the combiners after losses of ~0.5dB is ~46kW. We can expect another ~1.5dB of attenuation after forcing it up 300m of waveguide to the top of the tower so we're now sat at a "mere" ~33kW of RF energy going into the bottom of our antenna.

    - 33kW with a +15dBd gain gets us to an ERP from the antenna of 1.044 MW.

    --------------

    Note: Numbers compiled from public sources. All mistakes and misunderstandings are mine. Whilst I do work in a tangentially related industry this is completely out of my area of expertise - in the same way that working as a cleaner at an aeroplane does not mean one knows how to fly or maintain a plane.

  10. 10. mschuster91||context
    Your math looks reasonable but eh, it's 34 °C indoors and 38 °C outdoors...
  11. 11. dotwaffle||context
    > so for peak loudness (someone shouting or the loudest spike in music) it can take an extra 50% power to create the upper and lower sidebands

    Some people save energy by turning their appliances off at the plug rather than leaving them on standby. Clearly Radio 4 chose to avoid having Brian Blessed on too frequently instead ;)

  12. 12. yakkers||context
    Doesn't excuse CHU: two 3kW, one 5kW ERP.

    And by the virtue of shortwave propagation, it could be heard across the world. For the past month and a half (from when the news of its impending shutdown was revealed) I was regularly picking it up in Australia right up until the bitter end.

  13. 13. ggm||context
    Wave skip? (Naieve question)
  14. 14. intrasight||context
  15. 15. yakkers||context
    HF propagates through skywave (most reliably from 5-30MHz), which is where the signal bounces off the ionosphere.

    In the MF (AM broadcast) band, you can observe this at night - in Australia I can pick up the 50kW Melbourne ABC station (public broadcaster) at 774kHz with a good radio, just about across the entire country.

    In the LF (longwave) band, the earth’s surface and the ionosphere start to behave more like a waveguide than skywave. This is actually more reliable/consistent than even HF, but you need massive transmitting antennas due to the large wavelengths involved.

    HF also generally wins for distance covered per watt - despite the massive power of Radio 4 longwave, I’d have no chance of hearing it reach Australia.

  16. 16. jhoechtl||context
    Everyone is talking about the massive power of Radio 4 - it wasn't. Radio poland or algeria have much stronger LW broadcast.
  17. 17. yakkers||context
    It’s still quite a lot of power for AM (amplitude modulation) broadcast on any band.

    If Radio 4 was on shortwave with 500kW transmitters, I probably would have been able to listen in on my radio at home in Australia, no UK-located KiwiSDR required.

    Japan used to have a 500kW transmitter on 774kHz (mediumwave/AM broadcast band) for NHK Radio 2, and when the local broadcaster on 774 kHz went off air at midnight for scheduled maintenance, I could pick it up on my car’s stereo quite easily.

  18. 18. PunchyHamster||context
    You'd have to calculate it by watt per area covered; FM ones are of lower power but you just need more of them coz they have lower range.
  19. 19. Marsymars||context
    The parent comment was partially about Canada's VHF Weatheradio service - that was comparatively much lower power - the average station power was somewhere around 200 watts ERP.
  20. 20. jmclnx||context
    That is too bad, you would think these could be kept active for historical purposes. But seems these services are all being turned off even though I heard a few were very useful in this day and age.
  21. 21. cjs_ac||context
    IIRC, their operation relies on enormous vacuum tubes that the BBC can’t get replacements for any more.
  22. 22. RachelF||context
    In some way it is short-sited, as radio is a good backup medium for global communications in case the entire Internet ever goes down.

    Vacuum tubes also aren't vulnerable to nuclear weapon electro-magnetic pulses.

    However, other than ham radio enthusiasts I guess no one listens to analogue radio anymore.

  23. 23. jasonjayr||context
    I got my RTL-SDR to see what I could listen to, and by the time I tuned in, nearly all the short wave stations I could tune to were just broadcasting evangelical religious stuff, or other crazy conspiracy stuff. It's remarkable that these powerful stations spend most of their broadcast day transmitting that content.
  24. 24. a57721||context
    Most international broadcasters have left the shortwave band quite some time ago, unfortunately. I think it is still easy to find BBC, China Radio International, Romanian radio, Radio Havana Cuba, but the list is relatively short (compared to 20 years ago).

    In the US, WRMI sells its air time to anyone at low prices. It's mostly religious stuff but there are some regular music shows too, I think.

  25. 25. pessimizer||context
    They still broadcast on FM.
  26. 26. dingaling||context
    ... on a patchwork off different frequencies across the UK due to the poor propagation of VHF
  27. 27. fredoralive||context
    Doesn’t RDS mostly solve that for the most common case where frequency changes becomes an issue (car radios).
  28. 28. KaiserPro||context
    Yup, and DAB also still works.
  29. 29. K0balt||context
    Umm mostly. IMHO DAB is a failure, at least for vehicles.
  30. 30. hdgvhicv||context
    I listen almost exclusively on dab in the car. It auto fails to FM but it’s rare I go somewhere where that happens.
  31. 31. K0balt||context
    It’s probably highly variable depending on location and the quality of your radio/antenna. It’s useless where I am.
  32. 32. phire||context
    This transmitter doesn't really have the range for reliable global communication, it's optimised for covering the UK. For the global communication usecase, there are other networks of military transmitters (DHFCS) that are much better suited for the job, and they aren't being shut down any time soon.

    What it did provide was a simple but reliable way to maintain emergency broadcast to general public within Britain. And it probably should have been kept online just for that reason.

  33. 33. microgpt||context
    Except nobody has a radio any more, certainly not one that receives LF. People have cellphones, and cellphones have a mandatory feature that lets the government display a message on everyone's screen, usually accompanied by loud and scary beeping. That's the new emergency broadcast mechanism. It's not as simple, but at least people actually see it.
  34. 34. hdgvhicv||context
    Very few radios can pick up long wave now. My car certainly won’t.

    Even when they can most people Wouldn’t have a clue to listen to it.

    There’s a reason LW isn’t critical national infrastructure.

  35. 35. gerdesj||context
    We do spend out quite a lot here in the UK for the BBC. They could easily dump a couple of expensive presenters and use the savings for vacuum tubes, if that is what is needed.

    No idea where vacuum tubes were invented but I'm sure the BBC could find someone to make them.

  36. 36. andyjohnson0||context
    > No idea where vacuum tubes were invented but I'm sure the BBC could find someone to make them.

    The BBC has just cut its budget by £500 million, in an apparent attempt to limit the damage from the latest charter renewal process - which determines its funding. The new director general (ie ceo) is an ex-Google person, and they seem to be pivoting to become a social media content provider. So I'm pretty sure that spending licence fee money on making vacuum tubes to broadcast a signal that nobody under forty listens to wouldnt get past a value for money test.

    (I like the BBC and its radio output, and I'm one of those weirdos who still pays the licence fee despite never watching tv or any of the stuff that the licence fee is required for. But it is becoming increasingly lost to me: focussed on triviality and politically cowed. Sadly, I no longer expect it to last.)

  37. 37. microgpt||context
    I thought the license fee was a tax. You have to pay it, except in extremely specific scenarios that are basically just the bureaucracy's way of saying it's technically optional even though it isn't. AFAIK you have to own no devices capable of receiving BBC broadcasts - this includes most phones and computers since they broadcast on the internet.
  38. 38. Symbiote||context
    You only need the license if you watch live TV (on any service) or use BBC iPlayer.

    If you only watch DVDs, or stream movies etc, you don't need a license

  39. 39. microgpt||context
    When did they change it from if you could watch to if you actually watch?
  40. 40. Symbiote||context
    In about 2008 it was OK, my flatmate let the "TV licencing" people in to see a TV connected only to games consoles and a DVD player.
  41. 41. rgblambda||context
    Technically the rule never changed. If a licence inspector sees a TV connected to an ariel socket then you're breaking the law.

    But there's virtually no inspections any more. There were a lot of bad newspaper headlines about poor single mothers going to prison for getting caught (and refusing to pay the fine, but that bit usually got left out), so enforcement basically ended.

  42. 42. TylerE||context
    I'm sure they could, but sourcing people willing to manufacture heavily equipment/processing intensive speciality products for tiny runs will be MINDBLOWINGLY expensive.

    This isn't about the little tubes that go in a guitar amp... we're talking about tubes that may well be too large for a single person to lift.

    What's more, everyone who knew how to build things is either dead or in a retirement home. You'd have to re-engineer much of it from scratch.

  43. 43. microgpt||context
    At least you already have some working tubes to start from. Some guy did it with Nixie tubes, of course those are a lot smaller.
  44. 44. TylerE||context
    Exactly - and look what those cost despite being produced in relative quantity. Now scale up to something that's 1000 times the size with 1/1000th the production volume. Wouldn't surprise me if the per-tube cost was in the millions.

    Nixies are also cold cathode, low current devices. Radio broadcast tubes can be handling tens or even hundreds of thousands of watts.

  45. 45. microgpt||context
    These aren't just any vacuum tubes. They are each the size of a small fridge, and extremely specialized for use in radio broadcasting.
  46. 46. ErroneousBosh||context
    > They could easily dump a couple of expensive presenters and use the savings for vacuum tubes, if that is what is needed.

    I bet they're kicking themselves over not just renewing Jeremy Clarkson's contract.

  47. 47. jstanley||context
    It's hard to believe that civilisation has lost the ability to build longwave radio transmitters.
  48. 48. microgpt||context
    It's like the moon rocket. At any time we could have restarted that program from scratch and run it again, but what would the point be? We don't have the direct ability to make one but we have the ability to gain the ability to make one.

    If we did regain the capability it would probably be solid-state.

  49. 49. jstanley||context
    I don't think it's like that at all. I bet you could build a perfectly serviceable replacement at home without needing to spin up any special manufacturing equipment, using off-the-shelf components.

    For that matter I'd be somewhat surprised if you can't simply buy a ready-made replacement.

  50. 50. microgpt||context
    A 500kW LF amplifier? Things do have to be designed to their individual requirements, you can't just buy a car stereo amp and turn it up to 1000.
  51. 51. jstanley||context
  52. 52. wartywhoa23||context
    Thanks for sharing this, it surely blows the theory about the lost art of building powerful transmitters out of the water.
  53. 53. rgblambda||context
    It's actually a private company that operates the transmitters. The BBC have been paying for access until now.
  54. 54. nickcw||context
    The Droitwich transmitter used to transmit on exactly 200 kHz which I always thought was very cool, but it moved to 198 kHz in 1988 to better harmonize with European stations.

    The program was mostly the same as BBC Radio 4 but it used to diverge at certain times of day. I used to be woken up at 5am every day by my parents clock radio with the farming news which was very dull, but easy to sleep through.

  55. 55. reaperducer||context
    It was my father's morning alarm, too. But he was a couple of thousand miles away in New York state.

    That, and Atlantic 252 (I believe now long gone) were what he woke up to every morning.

  56. 56. gavinward||context
    Despite the name I would not have guessed you could pick up Atlantic 252 in the US. The quality of it wasn't great for listening to music.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_252

    "Although the transmitter was in Ireland, the signal's reach meant that it was often looked upon as a "UK national station". Reception reports were received from such locations as Berlin, Finland, Ibiza and Moscow."

  57. 57. mark-r||context
    Thanks for mentioning the actual frequency. The article says "long wave" many times without specifying what it actually means.
  58. 58. LeoPanthera||context
    "Longwave", usually written without a space, is an informal and not well-defined term for radio frequencies lower than the AM broadcast band, which in Europe is known as "medium wave".

    In the USA there have never been commercial longwave stations, though various WWV time signals are broadcast in that band.

  59. 59. davidferguson||context
    Online stream for those without a LW AM receiver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugd8G5w-Sfo
  60. 60. binaryturtle||context
    As long we still have DCF77…
  61. 61. goodthenandnow||context
    That station is said to be one of the signals used by the UK’s nuclear subs to assess the state of the country in a war scenario.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort#:~:text...

  62. 62. 2b3a51||context
    Suspect it is the Anthorn station these days.
  63. 63. jon-wood||context
    Imagine if the end of humanity is caused by everybody assuming somebody else told the captains about this.
  64. 64. MonkZ||context
    I hope they update their protocols
  65. 65. dotwaffle||context
    I hope you mean updated... Otherwise we're about to find out what's in the letter of last resort they have onboard! ;)
  66. 66. mhh__||context
    No worry because the missiles don't work
  67. 67. dotwaffle||context
    ... Did you replace them with pringles tubes?
  68. 68. iefbr14||context
    It is still on air, playing a message that they stopped broadcasting on that freq. (at least 30 minutes ago)
  69. 69. leoc||context
    Radio Society of Great Britain reaction: https://rsgb.org/main/radio-sport/rsgb-contest-club/bbc-long...

    Rather defensive press release thing from the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/articles/2026/radio-4-broadc...

  70. 70. downrightmike||context
    I wonder how many of the Van Allen radiation belts is held up by this
  71. 71. UncleOxidant||context
    List of longwave radio broadcasters - including those that have shut down. The shutdown list is much longer than those remaining (only 7 remaining).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longwave_radio_broadca...

  72. 72. bilegeek||context
    IMO, when the last LW transmitter shuts down, the whole band needs to be reallocated to hams. Realistic small-ish antennas are shockingly doable with a capacitance hat, loading coil, and counterpoise.
  73. 73. yakkers||context
    There’s still a lot of utility stations in the LF/longwave band. Particularly time signals (WWVB in the US, ALS162 in France, DCF77 in Germany, JJY in Japan, etc.) and NDB beacons.

    At least in VK/Australia, there’s the 2200 meter band, but it’s quite limited (1W power limit, CW/digital only, 135.7–137.8 kHz).

    At the same time, as much as I don’t want the AM broadcast band to die, I’d love an amateur band in the lower/middle part of MF/MW.

  74. 74. bilegeek||context
    > There’s still a lot of utility stations in the LF/longwave band. Particularly time signals (WWVB in the US, ALS162 in France, DCF77 in Germany, JJY in Japan, etc.)

    I meant just the broadcast band 148.5-283.5 kHz. (Though I'd love if 2200m and 630m were just a bit wider.)

    > and NDB beacons.

    Good point[1]. So 148.5-200 kHz in ITU Region 2 (and keep LowFER allowances on 160-190kHz as a consolation prize.)

    [1]https://www.dxinfocentre.com/ndb.htm

  75. 75. ErroneousBosh||context
    In the UK we have 2200m but it's 1W *ERP*, so you're probably running a good couple of kW to get there with any practicable aerial.

    We've also got a chunk just off the bottom of MW around 475kHz, which ought to be good for long-range night-time communications. It's licenced for CW, QRSS, and narrow-band digital modes.

  76. 76. pfdietz||context
    > Particularly time signals

    Doesn't GPS utterly replace this?

  77. 77. rafski123||context
    Many wall clocks and wrist watches (Casio WaveCeptors) plus cars set their times from radio.
  78. 78. mrob||context
    Longwave penetrates buildings better than GPS and is harder to jam.
  79. 79. ballooney||context
    In no way whatsoever, for low power devices.
  80. 80. toxik||context
    I hate to rain on your parade, but a lot of interests want the low-frequency spectrum. It will absolutely never be allocated to amateur radio.
  81. 81. K0balt||context
    What are they wanting to build? It’s hard to put much information on lower frequencies, afaik?
  82. 82. wartywhoa23||context
    I bet it will have to do with the military, almost inevitably.
  83. 83. hylaride||context
    With the risks to GPS becoming more acute, many jurisdictions are seriously entertaining bringing back a modern version of LORAN.

    There's also high frequency firms that want to muscle their way into shortwave frequencies as they can have lower latency between trading sites (eg NYC and Chicago) since the physical infra isn't a direct link as the crow flies (as well as the speed of light being slowed in fiber optic lines). They've even restarted some microwave links, as they don't necessarily need a lot of bandwidth, just latency.

  84. 84. K0balt||context
    LORAN was actually pretty awesome.
  85. 85. ErroneousBosh||context
    It's not really much use for anything. What "interests" would you think are interested in it?
  86. 86. 7402||context
    Already has been, although just small bits at present:

    US 2200m band 135.7 - 137.8 kHz US 630m band 472 - 479 kHz

    These became available in 2017 in US, following the agreement of the International Telecommunication Union's 2007 and 2012 conferences.

  87. 87. LeoPanthera||context
    "Longwave" has no universally agreed defintion, but good news, amateur radio already has usage of 135.7 kHz to 137.8 kHz.

    Building equipment that works on frequencies this low, and avoiding natural interference, can be extremely difficult.

  88. 88. ErroneousBosh||context
    Building aerials that work efficiently at 136kHz is difficult (although I have a croft that's approximately long enough for a half-wave dipole in NW Scotland, close to the sea for a good groundplane).

    Actually generating the signal you could do with a moderately expensive USB soundcard, directly synthesizing it with simple VST-like plugin. Mad to think about, really.

  89. 89. microgpt||context
    I thought hams already had plenty of bands. Is there not one in this range?
  90. 90. aeonik||context
    There is a very small slice that amateur radio gets in this band, in theory it would be nice to have a bigger slice, but honestly, building antennas for this band to transmit anything worthwhile would be pretty hard.

    My 7 Mhz antenna (HF, 40m band) is 67 feet long, and goes across by whole house.

    The smallest antenna you could get away with for LF would be hundreds to thousands of feet long.

    You might be able to go smaller if you enjoy suffering. Though, there are some pretty creative antenna designs that defy logic.

  91. 91. microgpt||context
    Does stapling it to your neighbours' fence lines and painting it like the wood count as creative?

    I wonder if you can couple to your local distribution grid, and not get arrested.

  92. 92. aeonik||context
    I just string the antenna across my attic.

    Coupling into my power upstairs is a bit of a problem sometimes though.

    Pirating power is something I've heard that happens, but I looked it up, and couldn't find an actual cited example of someone doing it via induction.

    Plenty of people doing it via extension cords and device tampering though.

  93. 93. ErroneousBosh||context
    > Coupling into my power upstairs is a bit of a problem sometimes though.

    I haven't worked with my end-fed on 40m for a couple of years. We've recently all had our crappy old aluminium-cored BT lines replaced with shiny new fibre though, so this time I am unlikely to lift the coveted Worked All DSLAMs trophy ;-)

  94. 94. microgpt||context
    I meant feeding RF back into the power grid to use it as your very large antenna
  95. 95. myotheraccount2||context
  96. 96. aeonik||context
    This is amazing.
  97. 97. microgpt||context
    I understand that while you can add substantial capacitance and inductance to make an "electrically long" short antenna for a long wavelength, its effectiveness at transmitting and receiving is still proportional to its size - the signal will be pretty weak?
  98. 98. microgpt||context
    Then I remembered the way these electrically short antennas work is by resonating the signal within themselves so you're basically transmitting a really high amount of power with a really low efficiency (and the rest stays confined between the antenna and its extra L/C loads until it gets transmitted).
  99. 99. dotwaffle||context
    Before Radio 4 LW was renumbered in 1988, it was 200kHz. And before the early 70s it was referred to as it's wavelength... 1500m :P
  100. 100. RobotToaster||context
    Best we can do is privatisation and selling it to a party donor.
  101. 101. xattt||context
    LW-HFT all the wayyyyy!

    - some cryptobro

    /s

  102. 102. ErroneousBosh||context
    That'd be quite a challenge!

    From a quick Google I see that HFT carries out trades in an average of 700ns, which is close to the cycle time of a 150kHz carrier, so you'd have to come up with some really clever phase modulation scheme that could carry meaningful data in *one single cycle*.

    You're definitely going down the SDR route for that.

  103. 103. WorldMaker||context
    It's still technically "high frequency", just in terms of sound rather than trade volume. Also if it's some cryptobro's pet project it probably needs time to settle on some blockchain ledger, so extra reason to find a new meaning for "high frequency" like sound wave cycle to confuse the marketing on the project.
  104. 104. wartywhoa23||context
    The witness of the conspiracy practice in me says that the opposite is more likely to happen in the world whose govenments strive to limit its ineterconnectedness and turn it into a set of isolated anclaves not unlike Orwell's Eurasia, Eastasia and Oceania.

    The next logical step in that direction would be cracking down on HAM, not liberalization of it.

    We'll see.

  105. 105. jimnotgym||context
    I'm very sad to see this go.

    I was listening to DAB in the car, not so far from here last weekend, and it kept cutting out. Whereas you could get LW everywhere!

    I developed a love of cricket on Test Match Special from a very young age. A tiny inexpensive radio could get it anywhere. I actually never minded the interruptions from the Shipping Forecast, the real reason they kept this service up for so long. I know there are many ways to get a forecast now, none of which is as reliable as radio 4.

  106. 106. Scoundreller||context
    A/The real reason was that electricity meters were built around a part of the signal being used to switch between price tiers but recently phased out.
  107. 107. Peanuts99||context
    Digital radio was always going to be crap, it doesn't degrade gradually as signal gets worse They should have just put all the money into a better 4G network and ran radio through that.
  108. 108. fredoralive||context
    Bit of hindsight bias there, DAB was first developed in the mid 1990s, ubiquitous fast wireless IP in everyone’s pockets is at least a decade, perhaps nearer to 20 years in the future. There are quite a few transitionary technologies that we needn’t have developed had we just waited for something better to come along (but without the R&D into some of them…).

    (Also doesn’t analogue FM also kinda cut off fairly abruptly?)

  109. 109. expedition32||context
    I have a DAB radio and it gets constant interference. Meanwhile FM is stable. In the same set up.

    Really soured me on this digital radio technology.

  110. 110. mybrowsercache||context
    FM stays listenable even with heavy distortions when you drive out of range and you can decide for yourself when you no longer tolerate the signal. Digital doesn’t give you warnings and just goes silent
  111. 111. guenthert||context
    DAB+ receivers can (and many do) display signal quality. Not playing distorted, noisy signals is a feature I greatly appreciate.
  112. 112. hulitu||context
    > Not playing distorted, noisy signals is a feature I greatly appreciate

    Haha. The DAB+ signals are compressed as much as possible.

  113. 113. guenthert||context
    Some more than others. E.g. Deutschlandfunk Kultur is broadcasted in decent quality, as is NDR3. Klassik Radio fares poorer, but that's due to the bandwidth allocated to them.

    Comparison here is FM, not FLAC.

  114. 114. hdgvhicv||context
    It’s a digital cliff. Analog fades away but is never a true replication digital remains stable for over but then vanishes.

    At the same quality dab is still perfectly long after fm becomes gabled. It then vanishes.

    The problem with dab in early days was the lower strength, the poor quality decoding, and the lower bitratr than should be been used for the codec.

  115. 115. dotwaffle||context
    Not entirely true. There's quite a bit of error correction applied: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting#Err...
  116. 116. hdgvhicv||context
    Which either recovers or doesn’t. The gap between fully recovered and indecodavle is tiny.
  117. 117. dingaling||context
    In my experience DAB goes painfully 'squawky' and squeaky before finally cutting out, it's unbearable in headphones.

    This video gives a good example of the signal breaking down from 00:38

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ihmXOy1h4

  118. 118. gosub100||context
    Especially so with digital public TV. its absolutely unusable. and now they can't stand that people want to share sports broadcasts, so they are updating it again to add encryption. I can't believe anyone watches it.
  119. 119. microgpt||context
    One-to-one communications and broadcast communications are different. Perhaps every 4G tower could broadcast the news on a special data channel, but it would be a separate system from the main 4G data channel.
  120. 120. cogman10||context
    > it doesn't degrade gradually as signal gets worse

    That has a lot more to do with the dated implementation and less to do with digital radio. There are a number of digital broadcasting techniques which can minimize and compensate for noise, including a slight delay with a signal correction and fault tolerant codecs.

    DAB was implemented using the old MPEG2 audio codec. DAB+ uses the now 15 year old codec HE-AAC which isn't really designed to handle corruption. Opus handles loss a lot better (see their examples https://opus-codec.org/examples/ )