NewsLab
Jun 29 01:45 UTC

Hey Nico, you didn't vibe code your data room but stole it from Papermark (twitter.com)

613 points|by mmunj||288 comments|Read full story on twitter.com
https://xcancel.com/mfts0/status/2070080422482977095

Comments (288)

120 shown|More comments
  1. 1. NickNaraghi||context
    Gonna have to see the agent trace on that one.
  2. 2. kleiba2||context
    Missing context.
  3. 3. xyzsparetimexyz||context
    Don't care. Competition is good for consumers.
  4. 4. irdc||context
    When it plays fair, sure. Not when it steals.
  5. 5. bogwog||context
    It is, but this isn't competition. This just copyright infringement.

    Competition would be if these people created their own software, possibly innovating and improving it in the process. That would encourage Papermark to improve their own offering, and would create an environment where these businesses are economically incentivized to improve the product or service.

    Nobody is incentivized to improve the software in question here. If copyright law doesn't protect anything, then improving your product is helping the competition and potentially hurting your business. Same is true if you're the people who did the infringement.

  6. 6. dgb23||context
    When competition has no rules it resorts to people banging each other over their heads with clubs.
  7. 7. Eufrat||context
    People argue for less regulations until they are the ones eating crow.
  8. 8. Eufrat||context
    Let’s not even talk about the feature. Copying the entire visual design itself with superficial tweaks is pretty brazen and, frankly, incredibly lazy.
  9. 9. augment_me||context
    Who cares if the consumer buys it and uses it? Information is worth nothing anymore, attention is, so if they manage to capture a larger audience somehow, they win.
  10. 10. otterley||context
    > Information is worth nothing anymore

    What do you do for a living? For most of us in the tech industry, information being worth something (because it takes creative and intellectual labor to produce) puts food on our tables.

  11. 11. augment_me||context
    LLMs produce about 95% of the code at my company and review about 70% of it for 3 years now. Our team has downsized from 40 to 8 people in this time. My creative labor is spent writing harnesses and wrappers. When there is enough of a data distribution on this, the LLMs will be able to do that as well.

    I have saved up a buffer in funds and bonds because it's going to be over at some point when the company moves from explore to exploit.

  12. 12. Eufrat||context
    This laissez-faire logic is insane, but I think it is telling that a lot of folks here seem to have this mindset and makes me empathize with increasingly nihilistic people.
  13. 13. weregiraffe||context
    Stealing is the opposite of competition. It's in the same category as straight killing your competitors.
  14. 14. onel||context
    I think it's important to care about these things though. You want competition but you also want fair competition
  15. 15. lenerdenator||context
    Unless you don't copy the license terms, it's impossible to "steal" open-source code. That's... sort of the point.
  16. 16. irdc||context
    Papermark is AGPL; Corgi must release all its changes.
  17. 17. lenerdenator||context
    That means they're not complying with the license terms. Which would be stealing. Like I said it would be.
  18. 18. irdc||context
    So we're in violent agreement then?
  19. 19. lenerdenator||context
    Brutally violent agreement. kicks shin, shakes hand
  20. 20. josephg||context
    Thats not what you said. You said "copy the license terms". Copying a license isn't the same as complying with one.

    Though it looks like in this case they didn't do either.

  21. 21. galangalalgol||context
    Copyright violation is not theft. Your effort to create something that can be effortlessly copied conveys to you no property. Society deems it beneficial to grant a time limited monopoly on copying it to spur innovation.
  22. 22. brookst||context
    You wouldn’t steal a car!
  23. 23. skeledrew||context
    Stealing a car - or anything tangible - means... the owner is very literally deprived of the benefits of owning said car/thing. Can't really say the same for a copied pattern of bits.
  24. 24. fc417fc802||context
    But I would download one.
  25. 25. gryfft||context
    Many open source licenses levy restrictions upon the acceptable use of the software. Those restrictions may include attribution requirements, up to and including a requirement to include the license when redistributing the code; they may forbid using derivative works for commercial purposes; they may require the downstream project to utilize the same license. Open source is not the same thing as "anybody can do anything they want forever."
  26. 26. lenerdenator||context
    > Unless you don't copy the license terms
  27. 27. gryfft||context
    You edited your comment while I was replying, and merely copying the license does not cover many other possible restrictions.
  28. 28. lenerdenator||context
    I didn't edit anything.

    I did choose the wrong word, though. Comply, not copy.

  29. 29. DiabloD3||context
    So, by definition, you did edit it to change the typo.
  30. 30. john_strinlai||context
    >So, by definition, you did edit it to change the typo.

    their comment still says "copy". the comment you are replying to clarifies that they meant to type "comply", not copy.

    since the wrong word is still there, 'by definition' they have not edited it.

  31. 31. DiabloD3||context
    Ahh, I misread it.
  32. 32. gryfft||context
    Well, if it's my memory at fault then I apologize. My memory of the comment I replied to didn't include the initial qualifying phrase with either word choice.
  33. 33. tzs||context
    > they may forbid using derivative works for commercial purposes

    The most widely used definitions of “open source” do not allow such a prohibition.

  34. 34. stanac||context
    Yup, if we take OSI as defacto authority on open source definition

    > 6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

    > The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.

    https://opensource.org/osd

  35. 35. exo762||context
    Copyleft is still a thing. Right to attribution is still a thing. Please, read about it and you will discover that there is a lot of nuance to the open-source code.
  36. 36. samtheprogram||context
    It's really hard to not assume this is intentional ragebait.

    A cursory look reveals they aren't complying. So, as you say, they are stealing. What's the point of this comment?

  37. 37. jobs_throwaway||context
    You didn't code it, you stole it from open source OS and compiler maintainers
  38. 38. rzmmm||context
    "before Bison version 1.24, Bison-generated parsers could be used only in programs that were free software."

    https://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Conditio...

  39. 39. irdc||context
    I'd suggest replacing that link with https://xcancel.com/mfts0/status/2070080422482977095
  40. 40. tom_||context
    And maybe reword the submission title while they're there, though the current one is well chosen for maximizing engagement I'm sure.
  41. 41. olluk||context
    Close your source if you don't want it to be read by LLM
  42. 42. goldenarm||context
    That's not how licenses work, Papermark is AGPL
  43. 43. olluk||context
    I agree. It's a sarcasm of the new reality. What is copying vs writing from scratch? The line is blurred now, non-existent. You can ask an LLM to re-write any open source to a degree where there is no definite way to say that it's a derivative.
  44. 44. ActionHank||context
    "If Disney wants to retain their rights to Mickey they really shouldn't be showing any images of him to the world."
  45. 45. qwertytyyuu||context
    Stealing it for your use case would take more effort vibe coding. The term is fine as is
  46. 46. wolttam||context
    Folks... read the actual tweet. They literally didn't vibe code it - they copy-pasted another project.
  47. 47. john_strinlai||context
    wait just a second, that's not how to use HN. youre supposed to read the title -> get upset and write a comment -> argue.
  48. 48. mdjxnxnxnd||context
    Rabble rabble rabble
  49. 49. dools||context
    Vibe stole it?
  50. 50. josephg||context
    Probably just stole it by the looks of those screenshots.
  51. 51. dools||context
    Yeah I mean like git clone the repo then "hey LLM rip off this code, make no mistakes"
  52. 52. Sanzig||context
    Yeah, the title that the OP chose is so sufficiently misleading that I think this one will need to be get changed by the mods. Seitz isn't opining on the ethics of vibe coding in his tweet, he's pointing out that Corgi literally just stole Papermark's AGPL codebase and passed it off as vibe coding.
  53. 53. jknoepfler||context
    It's nearly word-for-word the content of the tweet. Right at the top. It isn't misleading unless you literally don't even bother to open the linked content.

    Just ban users who comment without reading, I think that would go further to keep the quality of discussion high.

    The number of bots/trolls responding to the title without reading the content and missing the point entirely is astounding, honestly, and I don't think any of those posts are contributing to high quality discussion. We could do without those users.

    "but but but I can't/won't open twitter links" - then don't flap your yak-hole. Ignoring for a moment that the content has been reproduced in full in this thread, and another user has provided an alternative xcancel link.

  54. 54. Sanzig||context
    Ideally yes, but we know people don't RTFA - there's a reason that initialism dates back to early Slashdot.

    The paraphrase is doing a lot of heavy lifting to convert it to ragebait. Had the OP gone with something like "you didn't vibe code it, you plagiarized Papermark's open source project" (may need some editing to fit under the character limit) it would have at least been more true to the original tweet.

  55. 55. jknoepfler||context
    I know I RTFA, and I know I'm not interested in discussing things with people who don't. Maybe others feel differently, because more people is better or something. Information pollution is a serious, persistent, growing problem and I'm just not inclined to be tolerant about it anymore. Mistakes are one thing, deliberate stupidity is another.

    If you come to book club without reading the book, and you derail the conversation into something completely irrelevant, you're not getting invited back.

  56. 56. hluska||context
    That’s a lot of rage for something that does not impact you at all. Who cares? You don’t get to control everything around you online.
  57. 57. brookst||context
    It’s an intentionally misleading title, using “you” to imply that the reader is guilty of theft.

    An honest title would be “Corgi didn’t vibe code it, they stole Papermark’s AGPL code”.

    Sure, people should read links, but when a writer posts ragebait for engagement, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

  58. 58. mmunj||context
    You’re giving me too much credit if you think i was being sensationalist and trying to make it more clickworthy, i couldnt succeed in that if i tried

    I was mostly fighting the title character limit

  59. 59. IshKebab||context
    They may have been vibe coding and not realised it was an exact copy. AI sometimes makes verbatim copies of things in its training set.
  60. 60. scosman||context
    Short segments of popular works sure. Many UI pages with identical layouts and copy, essentially zero chance. The agent had access to the original code at inference time.
  61. 61. panny||context
  62. 62. pydry||context
    I remember a few cases when asking an LLM to do something in the early days yielded not only the code but an author and a COPYRIGHT license.

    Naturally LLM technology has moved on since then. I don't remember any recent word for word reproductions of a copyright license.

    There are a lot of people lauding the technology though because it occasionally one-shots a wildly impressive example of something which...already exists.

  63. 63. bix6||context
    Ah another YC popcorn fest
  64. 64. feverzsj||context
    LLM generated code could have very similar pattern to existing code with stricter license it trained on. So, it's better to keep them to yourself instead of bothering the public.
  65. 65. Aurornis||context
    Since the Tweet is small enough and a lot of people aren’t reading it (Twitter links don’t work well for those without an account some times) I’ll quote it here

    > Hey Nico,

    > It looks like you didn't vibe code your data room but stole it from Papermark's open source and enterprise-licensed code.

    > We demand you take this copyright and license infringing product down immediately.

    > It's not moving fast and breaking things, it's fraud.

    > It makes the rest of your business questionable and the YC community look terrible.

  66. 66. aboardRat4||context
    It is not possible to steal something which doesn't obey conservation laws. Don't try to scam physics, is always wins.
  67. 67. blourvim||context
    License in question: https://github.com/papermark/papermark?tab=License-1-ov-file It is AGPL, basically means:

    You have to share the source code even when the user interacts over the network with the software.

    The project which uses that code, must also be AGPL,

    There are ways to separate it and go around it, for example, using an AGPL auth server shouldn't affect the code where your business logic lives

    I am sure they could have found a way to design their product to be compliant, especially following past drama.

    This is assuming the code is indeed copied, since we don't know that for sure, it does look very similar but I am not sure how that is enforced

  68. 68. rwarren63||context
    they probably need to sue to enforce this, I think this is actually going to be a larger issue than just corgi. copyright with these models really is just a mess
  69. 69. blourvim||context
    What I don't understand is that if a lawsuit happens, then must the plaintiff produce their source code for verification ? Even so a git tree is trivial to change into some other arbitrary code even if a license violation has occurred. I also heard if proven the consequences are that they would lose all revenue starting from when the violation has occured
  70. 70. m4rtink||context
    Just consider all model output AGPL. ;-)
  71. 71. Chris2048||context
    What's with this response in the Twitter thread??:

    "This ain't what a C&D looks like. Implies you don't actually have a leg to stand on. Upload a copy of your official legal demand (from a lawyer) or I'll forever see your company as one who attempts to bully the competition in public"

    -- https://xcancel.com/jacobhartmannx/status/207012600834729596...

    Is this just trolling?!

  72. 72. andor||context
    Look at his other tweets, he seems to be a sociopathic extremist
  73. 73. greyb||context
    Or a troll? I'm so confused.
  74. 74. roryirvine||context
    What a bizarre complaint! It's not bullying to first try to resolve the matter informally rather than jumping straight into legal action.

    Besides - who is this guy, and why does he think he's owed sight of any legal paperwork?

  75. 75. WA||context
    He seems to be a bullshitter and partially fake. Just take a look at his LinkedIn profile.
  76. 76. slopinthebag||context
    Yes he's trolling. His bio is "CEO at @IronGorillaAI - proudly replacing white collar work with autonomous AI agents, one job at a time. American emigrant." and look at one of his recent posts lmao

    > THIS GUY ONLY WANTS 7 DAYS IN OFFICE.

    > At @IronGorillaAI, we run on the French Republican Calendar.

    > That’s 10 days a week.

    > We mandate all 10 in the office.

    > No hybrid. No remote. No negotiations.

    > If that sentence triggers you, you were never built for this anyway.

  77. 77. dwaltrip||context
    What a scumbag. The replies from Nico are insane:

    “Team effort”

    “:praying-hands (x2)”

    And so on… The audacity and complete shamelessness…

    I wonder what narrative they tell themselves.

  78. 78. Sanzig||context
    I wonder if Nico will be feeling so cocky when Papermark gets their general counsel involved. The public Twitter shaming was clearly an attempt to resolve this without litigation, but hey, if that's how Nico truly feels, guess he gets to see what's behind door #2 (a massive bill for a legal retainer).
  79. 79. civet_java||context
    I am curious how this will play out legally.

    Surely UI enough isn't enough to prove that source code was plagiarised?

    In the event Papermark chooses to sue how will the defendant defend themselves short of presenting their own (possibly) closed source?

  80. 80. Sanzig||context
    Most likely, Papermark would compel Corgi to disclose the source code during discovery.
  81. 81. civet_java||context
    I didn't realise that one could forcibly require a competitor to disclose trade secrets.

    Now, INAL of course, but I would think this sort of mechanism would be quite gameable from both sides ( i) a wealthy competitor legally forcing a promising upstart to reveal source ii) a copycat working out some kind of arrangement where the code itself is licensed to them via shell company based overseas.)

  82. 82. Sanzig||context
    As with most legal hacks, the courts figured this one out long ago :).

    If someone is trying to dig into their competitor's trade secrets via discovery, the court offers multiple ways to safeguard against that. The defendant can identify information as a trade secret and ask that it be protected in some way - for example, the documents may be restricted to "Attorneys' Eyes Only", so while the plaintiff's attorneys can review the material, the plaintiffs themselves are barred from reviewing it. Or the judge themselves may get involved in an in-camera session.

  83. 83. Twirrim||context
    There are software engineers that specialise in source code analysis that lawyers will often use in these cases. The engineers will be given access to source code in secure environments where they're not allowed to bring any device in or out. They review, analyse, and write up a report using pen and paper, that can then be reviewed by the lawyers.
  84. 84. FireBeyond||context
    Absolutely. It was very similar to one of my first jobs: "Legal Technical Analyst". Not as much time doing deep source analysis, but basically translating things for lawyers: "So as far as this claim of copyright/plagiarism... this block here, that's CS 101 stuff, that block there, that's novel, and does x, y and z".
  85. 85. overfeed||context
    > I am curious how this will play out legally

    I am curious if/how YC will handle this to get ahead of earning a reputation of being a den of scammers - a few months after the Delve scandal

  86. 86. stevekemp||context
    Many YC companies do bad things, and I guess they do so independently. There may well be repercussions for the most egregious cases, but I suspect a lot of ill-behaviour simply flies under the radar.

    For example only yesterday I got spam from an YC company, Polymath, and I replied back asking where they got my details from - no response yet. Once I get something I'll make a GDPR subject access request, then a deletion request. I hope the overhead of that causes them to rethink their spamming campaign.

    But I'm not going to complain to YC about it.

  87. 87. eloisius||context
    I have also gotten spammed by a YC startup, but they spammed an email that I use in git commits, and lead with "I saw your fork of $POPULAR_PROJECT, pretty cool!" or something like that and then continued to pester me with their drip program even as I replied asking them to never email me again.
  88. 88. overfeed||context
    > Many YC companies do bad things,

    My comment was not about doing a generic bad thing - it was about scammy behavior in particular (which ties to the Delve incident). YC depends on the VC ecosystem to fund its companies, and no VC wants to be scammed. If a reputation of cultivating/condoning/obliviousness scammers takes root, that would be bad for business.

    > But I'm not going to complain to YC about it.

    I am not complaining, or even expecting a moral decision. I'm legitimately curious how this will shake out, for purely capitalistic, reputation-management reasons.

  89. 89. bcye||context
    Good luck with referring to GDPR. Try clicking through YC startup list and see how many load GA and other trackers onto their landing pages without a consent banner or even a privacy policy sometimes. It’s baffling.
  90. 90. john_strinlai||context
    >I am curious if/how YC will handle this to get ahead of earning a reputation of being a den of scammers

    flock is a YC company, so it's pretty clear that YC does not care about a negative reputation. as long as it makes money, nothing else matters.

  91. 91. overfeed||context
    > it's pretty clear that YC does not care about a negative reputation.

    Perhaps not what the general public thinks, but I assume YC cares a lot about its reputation among VC firms that fund its companies, because VCs don't like being scammed (directly, or indirectly through unknowingly funding scams)

  92. 92. chihuahua||context
    Let's recall that YC used to be run by Sam Altman of all people, which confirms what you are saying.
  93. 93. lorey||context
    Their response:

    > The team that made dataroom has stated that they did not use any of papermark’s code and that dataroom was made from scratch with inspiration from existing document sharing softwares, and that this post’s allegations of us stealing code are false. [...]

    The screenshots clearly show they copied whole pages verbatim, both design and texts. The founder, Nico Laqua, basically responding with "we didn't copy _code_" and not taking any responsibility says a lot about his and his company's moral code. It might not be enough to get sued. That doesn't make it right.

    https://x.com/nico_laqua/status/2070158170937581951

  94. 94. nfw2||context
    I did an interview a couple years ago when Corgi was first hiring engineers. Nico and I ... did not click and it was probably the least smooth interview I've ever had despite it just being a phone screen.

    I wouldn't be that surprised if Nico genuinely thinks "we didn't copy the code" is a reasonable defense. It would be a clear cut rule, and extreme "shape rotator" types often have trouble with the fuzziness of things like law. In reality, copyright infringement is often more like the porn test, you know it when you see it.

  95. 95. throwawalien||context
    I never made it to the interview phase because on the phone screen they mentioned they all work 7 days a week in office. nope nope nope nope.
  96. 96. cmgriffing||context
    We should thank companies for warning us during the interview process that they are so separated from reality (especially in the AI era)

    If AI can’t make them recognize a work life balance has value then it’s easy to see they don’t believe the “force multiplier” BS they are peddling

  97. 97. nfw2||context
    They are worth 3 billion after two years so it seems like they are doing all right with their strategy although I'm old now and don't want to do that
  98. 98. manwithopinions||context
    They’re not really, it’s just the YC hype cycle. The business is selling insurance to other YC startups with some AI flair. They’re not even the first YC startup to do this, a previous YC insurance startup was acquired a few years ago for ~$1bn. So, they’re worth 3x the exit of the exact same company… because of what, AI? The fact that they’re cloning other software to release SaaS products is extremely bearish. Why are they wasting their time on this? A wildly successful $3bn startup would not spend their precious resources by launching a $10/m document sending SaaS. They’ll be doing down rounds soon enough. Could you imagine Paul Graham encouraging this?
  99. 99. mlnj||context
    Listened to the founder on 20VC episode talk endlessly about sleeping and showering in the office and comparing their insurance company to Alexander the Great and Napoleon.

    Silicon Valley is just so disconnected from reality.

  100. 100. FridgeSeal||context
    Would pay good money to see Silicon Valley complete their disconnection from reality and drift off into the void. The rest of us would get some semblance of normality back if they did.
  101. 101. aleqs||context
    A big part of the US VC operating model these days seems to be just rebuilding existing products with slight changes, then pushing all of their other startups to use that version of it. This is only going to accelerate with AI. Why pay some company you don't own to do thing for you, when you can just copy the company (maybe even improve it in some ways), seed it with with your large existing user base, then have it do the thing for you (while also generating profit from other customers and rapidly scaling in users and valuation itself).

    The reality is most of what most tech startups are doing is not actually hard and has no moat. The moat is in getting users/customers - connections/marketing/sales - product quality also matters of course, but there are plenty hyperscaler unicorns who's product is dogshit and vice versa.

  102. 102. manwithopinions||context
    Also, I should add, they’re growing fast because they will underwrite anyone for anything. They’re one “oops our AI underwriting has been taking on far too much risk” away from disaster. That they’re demanding 7 days a week from their employees while spending their time building a dataroom product instead of, I don’t know, improving their underwriting, is a bad sign.

    Normally getting insurance from a startup like Corgi would be a very bad idea because what’s to say they’ll be able to pay out claims? I assume other YC startups are happy because a) they can’t get insurance anywhere with good underwriting b) they figure YC will bail Corgi out when it goes wrong because seemingly every YC startup depends on them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_retention_group

    “Policyholders should be aware that certain Specialty Insurance Carriers may not be admitted insurers in the state in which the insured risk is located. Policies issued by non-admitted insurers, risk retention groups, captive insurers, and certain other Specialty Insurance Carriers may not be subject to all of the insurance laws and regulations of your state. State insurance insolvency guaranty funds may not be available for policies issued by non-admitted insurers, risk retention groups, captive insurance companies, offshore insurers, or other non-admitted Specialty Insurance Carriers. In the event of the insolvency of such a carrier, policyholders may not have access to state guaranty fund protection and may bear the risk of the carrier's inability to pay claims.”

    https://www.corgi.insure/disclaimers

  103. 103. petesergeant||context
    > Normally getting insurance from a startup like Corgi would be a very bad idea because what’s to say they’ll be able to pay out claims?

    Actually normally it’s fine because it’s rarely the startup selling insurance who’s doing the underwriting.

    Corgi is more worrying because they’re (apparently) underwriting too.

  104. 104. manwithopinions||context
    My understanding is a normal insurance tech startup would be acting as a broker.

    A rare but sensible insurance tech startup would use external underwriters and reinsurance and provide insolvency protection.

    Corgi doesn’t have any external underwriters, doesn’t have any insolvency protection, doesn’t have any reinsurance.

    I think they’re bad on all 3 points, not just the underwriting?

  105. 105. skeeter2020||context
    If this is the scenario, it's no wonder they're underwriting everyone & everything, and can do this competitively, because a broker would need to find either enough new clients and/or efficiencies to justify being the middleman between the customer and the actual insurer. That's typically been the strategy of every financial tech company; I don't see any secret sauce with Corgi beyond "'cause AI!". Move fast and break things is not what I'd want in my insurance company.
  106. 106. rwarren63||context
    look at coalition or atbay as an example of how an insurtech starts underwriting and moves into capacity later successfully
  107. 107. fennecbutt||context
    Lmao tech money is fake. Look at how much AI companies are throwing around. Musk is personally worth 1T now supposedly.

    It's all virtual valuations. The stock market is poison but most people on here won't admit to that because they have their own interests in it. What a joke our species is lmao. We're still grabbing big sticks to hit each other with and worrying about our neighbors coming to take our rocks because we're all just monkeys still, even though we pretend we're not.

  108. 108. FireBeyond||context
    > Musk is personally worth 1T now supposedly.

    Not after all the SpaceX "settling": https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattdurot/2026/06/24/elon-musk-...

  109. 109. tclancy||context
    Is that how things work now? Well then, I m worth five billion nd say things should stop working that way. Persuaded?
  110. 110. alsetmusic||context
    I got LinkedIn notifications for both Anthropic and OpenAI with my exact job description, but at 3-4x the pay. I said hell no. They would want me to actually work. The job I have now is easy. Plus, they're slated for mass layoffs when the market realigns. I work a gov job that's protected from market layoffs and the security of that is too good to give up.
  111. 111. rafram||context
    They're willing to admit "5 to 6 days a week" in writing [1]! Crazy stuff. Also a notably huge number of job openings, including for a head of HR [2]. Worrying signs, I would say.

    [1]: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/corgi-insurance/jobs/X...

    [2]: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/corgi-insurance/jobs/Y...

  112. 112. LastTrain||context
    Why do you need 7 days a week from your engineers when AI easily replaces engineers?
  113. 113. palmotea||context
    > It would be a clear cut rule, and extreme "shape rotator" types...

    It had to look that slang up: https://roonscape.ai/p/a-song-of-shapes-and-words.

    > ...often have trouble with the fuzziness of things like law. In reality, copyright infringement is often more like the porn test, you know it when you see it.

    I'd say it's more like the fuzziness defeats most of the software-style "exploits" those types gravitate towards. The edges of the laws aren't impossibly sharp and executed by dumb machines, so you can't sneak though "gaps" that would be there if those things were true.

    For instance: you can crash a machine by DoSing it, but you can't crash a court case the same way: the judge will look at you and your truckload of motions and hold you in contempt.

  114. 114. sseagull||context
    Obligatory XKCD

    https://xkcd.com/1494/

  115. 115. gilleain||context
    A very clear example of this is the 'Sovereign Citizen', who have bizarre beliefs around how to interact with courts. As far as I understand it, there are some 'cheat codes' people believe (incorrectly) are effective in literally getting you out of jail free.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

    > Another common belief among sovereign citizens is that they can opt out of the purported contract, making themselves immune from the laws they do not wish to follow, by declining to "consent": when confronted by police officers or other officials, sovereign citizens typically attempt to negate their authority by saying, "I do not consent"

    Like, why would this be true, and if it was, why would law enforcement and courts go along with it? I find it very odd.

  116. 116. nailer||context
    > Like, why would this be true

    Steel-manning the sovereign citizens movement (which I don't believe in): they believe authority comes from the consent of the populace, which is a true statement and in many countries founding documents, they mistakenly think that means the law doesn't apply to them when they as an individual do not consent.

    They basically don't get that democracy is the tyranny of the many.

  117. 117. nfw2||context
    Social contract philosophy has always seemed oversimplified to me. Are people in China or Iran consenting? "I consent, so I won't be killed" seems more like coercion.
  118. 118. skinfaxi||context
    What is tolerated is consented to in a sense. The alternative is rejection of the contract terms but you have to be willing to bet your life on it.
  119. 119. nfw2||context
    I don't see how that could be called consent. No one would say someone consented to sex, for example, because they weren't willing to die by refusing.
  120. 120. hamdingers||context
    > why would law enforcement and courts go along with it?

    They don't want to deal with it. If someone has one of those SovCit license plates, you know pulling them over is guaranteed to result in frustrating verbal sparring match, which may result in the cop giving up (which is then shared as evidence for the SovCit movement's effectiveness!), or may escalate to a physical altercation.

    Whether or not the SovCit practitioners understand that's what's happening is anyone's guess.