It's quite dangerous to make unsubstantiated comments and assumptions on US copyright law without the proper research.
Valve still owns the copyright to the game and just because they won't do anything now does not mean it is legal to redistribute it without their consent, especially when we know that the game is still being sold. [0]
They (Valve) reserve the right to enforce that and this site clearly does not have such a "license" and haven't disclosed as such. Why would you expect Valve to be in discussions with a 15 year old to redistribute the game for free?
> just because they won't do anything now does not mean it is legal to redistribute it without their consent
I don't think the parent comment is claiming it's legal, other than the (unlikely) chance that this is licensed, just that it's up to Valve to enforce and not really our concern. A lot of cool things (like the similar https://noclip.website/) are prima facie copyright infringement.
A crime is a crime even before a judge rules over it. Sure, innocent until proven guilty, but most people know when they're doing something wrong and then don't do it.
Of course, this is a lot more grey area for copyright violations etc because it's a civil matter.
Pithy but untrue. The verbose-but-correct statement is about procedural prerequisites: Government officials are forbidden to imprison or fine you until your guilt is proved, to an impartial and properly-instructed jury in a fair trial, beyond a reasonable doubt. (The Scots have the better formulation for criminal cases: Guilty, or not proved.)
Illustration: OJ Simpson was found not guilty [sic] in his criminal trial. So he couldn't be imprisoned. But then a different jury found — under the lower, preponderance of the evidence standard — that Simpson did indeed murder his ex-wife and the other guy. The latter case was the civil action for wrongful death, brought by the survivors of his victims. The survivors won a $33.5M verdict. Simpson's assets were seized, and sold at a court-ordered auction, to pay the judgment — including his Heisman Trophy.
Neither of the jury verdicts altered the reality of whether Simpson did or didn’t kill the two victims.
(In Simpson’s second trial, the jury found him liable, not “guilty.” Guilt is the term used in criminal prosecutions. Liability is the term used in civil cases.)
There are legal forms of killing. It is only via the application of our legal institutions that criminality is decided. No specific act on its own is criminal, there is no Platonic Crime.
Valve already gave Half-Life 2 away for free, and released the source code of the HL1 engine.
Is it technically illegal? Yeah, but Valve isn't losing out on any money, and there's no way they're going to risk the negative PR blowback they'd get for a takedown.
Besides, IP law is dead. The rise of AI made it pretty clear that you can steal literally anything without consequences.
GoldSrc (HL1 engine) is very much not open source (or even source available). There's at least one open source remake (which is possibly illegal due to using the SDK) but no official release.
That was a special promotion with a defined end date. The game is not free. The only legitimate way to obtain it currently is to pay for it. Together with the false claim about HL1 being open source, you're really adding a lot of misinformation to this thread.
Giving things away for free (at one point) is not the same as making it public domain or relinquishing your (copy)rights. Source available is not the same as open source. Open source code does not mean open source assets/product. I find it weird that this needs to be explained in this community.
> Giving things away for free is not the same as making it public domain or relinquishing your (copy)rights.
Obviously. But it does kill the usual "piracy is bad because companies lose money" argument - especially for a 22-year-old game.
> Source available is not the same as open source.
Obviously. But it does show that Valve is more interested in preserving old genre-defying games for the general public, rather than milking every last cent of revenue out of it.
> Yeah, but Valve isn't losing out on any money, and there's no way they're going to risk the negative PR blowback they'd get for a takedown.
So that makes it okay to pirate and steal games developed by your fellow indie game developers as well?
> Besides, IP law is dead. The rise of AI made it pretty clear that you can steal literally anything without consequences.
Try doing the same thing to Nintendo.
Even large companies like Anthropic were not going to risk going to trial and getting bankrupted of over $120B+ in damages in using pirated copyrighted eBooks for training. The best case was a settlement for $1.5B which that is a record settlement in copyright law.
This project seems perfectly congruent with current year industry standards regarding copyright, which are to move fast and lobby for permission later.
But what about the people who aren't idiots and can read sarcasm without the /s? I reflexively downvote ever comment I come across with a /s. People aren't idiots until you treat them like one.
But what about people who are in different parts of the world and don't inherently understand your meaning? That is terrible behaviour to downvote the notation.
Text is notorious for not conveying context. Sarcasm can easily be seen as serious by some people, why is why we have the /s notation to make it obvious.
People aren't idiots, they come from different backgrounds, locations, languages, and all use English as a common tongue. Have some consideration and stop thinking you are so big and clever.
The best sarcasm is exactly the one where it could be interpreted as written and people misreading it is part of the fun. If you are going to add sarcasm marks to make sure that absolutely everyone gets what you are intending then whats the point of using sarcasm in the first place instead of clearly writing what you mean?
You have a point when the situation is professional workspace communication. I'm able to code switch and drop idioms out of my language because e. g. "that's a home run" doesn't make sense if you're not American and have played baseball. But we're on a very nerdy entertainment website. It's not that I'm big and mighty it's that I hate having to dumb down discussion. This is why I call out people for throwing around words like scam to mean generically bad but not actually a scam and you pay for something that wasn't delivered. If you pay for something and you get what was ordered and it works, but the website to order on made it painful to make the order that's not a scam!
Poe's law exists but I'd rather pull up in discussion and intellect because I want to believe that people are smarter than we assume they are, in this day and age.
I don't think they wrote the comment because of the impact to Valve. After all, they said legal rather than ethical and the page already seems to be gone (hopefully just a temporary hosting thing due to popularity rather than a takedown thing, but it will soon become the latter regardless).
If you want these kinds of things to stay up long enough for many people to see/use them you have to work around the legal limitations (regardless of whether they make ethical sense). Most commonly, make the site apply as a diff to the original content/assets the user provides.
Ah yeah the famously equal acts of pirating a game VS promoting illegal unregulated gambling for millions of people (and that's just the tip of the iceberg).
That's why corporations can get away with everything.
As much as I dislike webdev stuff, I love the way you can distribute entire programs through WASM. Super cool stuff! For those who are interested, I recommend checking out Godot for exporting games on the web. It's really easy to do and you can host it on Itch.io
Isn't Godot kinda flawed for deploying to the web? For example, no C# as of now, although there have been plenty of efforts to make it work. Or AFAIU audio being forced to stay in the main thread which can cause glitches. I just mean that it's not all fun and games as soon as you want to make a more ambitious game and not just a quick demo or game jam thingy.
I found GDScript to be quite powerful in terms of functionality. I don't have experience in professional game Dev to be aware of the benefits of C# beyond it being the industry standard for Unity.
Single threaded audio is a big concern. I haven't implemented music in my game yet to know if it is a deal breaker.
The main problem that I have run into is shader compilation stutters on the compatibility render. Makes the game basically unplayable. My work around was to spawn certain objects on the main menu out of sight to force compilation. I believe the forward renderer has some pre-compilation.
Of course it's a matter of perspective and I can totally get how one would be happy with GDScript. Tbh, it's hard to beat GDScript when it comes to making small games. It's quite evident that only GDScript has first-class integration into the Editor, C# comes second and all the other serious language bindings come third.
I might state the obvious here, but static typing, null-safety, being able to refactor and such things make C# much much better for bigger games. Slay the Spire 2 has been made with Godot + C# and people have already decompiled and peeked under the hood (for example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB4-W9L4ec) and imo it shows quite well how certain patterns simply require a more powerful language than GDScript or would at least be very painful and fragile to make in GDScript.
Your workaround for shader stuttering sounds quite hilarious :D I don't mean it's bad. It seems pragmatic in a good sense. But yeah, it's those limitations that pile up when making Godot target the web...
gdscript is missing basic features like interfaces (only abstract classes with no multiple inheritance) or custom value types. spawning scenes from code is tricky and not type safe. asset loading and globals are a mess. the engine is built around using a lot of nodes but nodes are expensive, so you need to drop down to confusing low level server apis if you have performance issues.
the worst part is theres no defined build step so `@tool` scripts run both in the editor and at export time. its easy to accidentally crash the editor or mess up your scene with a bad editor script missing one line of code. and as far as i remember its impossible to undo so remember to save often.
godot is still the best option if you want a open source engine for your game but only because bevy is not production ready yet.
Godot 3.x supports C# on the web because it uses Mono.
Godot 4.x migrated to CoreCLR since Mono is a dead end, but Microsoft insists on .NET being the entrypoint in a WASM build. MS initially promised support for .NET being invoked by something else but dropped the feature, leaving Godot stranded. The current proposal is to make Godot a library (libgodot) invoked by .NET.
There's also https://noclip.website/ which, while not playable, has hundreds of levels from dozens of older games that you can explore freely. Including Half-Life 2, with more accurate rendering than this web port (which seems to be missing many shaders including character eyes).
Fan remake of the levels to avoid asset copy, but it's a downstream of the original engine (and loads the original level files just fine), so the real game.
Interestingly, these Wasm ports are all about nostalgia games.
I sort-of wish we would live in 1998 (when HL1 was released). Less social network, a more creative internet, LAN parties, IRC / ICQ, easier new connections.
We now have tailwind / material UI, a locked-down Apple ecosystem, Photoshop with millions of nagging screens, centralized mega-corps like OpenAI, and the first bits of World War 3 where drones and robotics are made to kill people.
Misses a lot this free internet (though 1 USD / minute)
It is so easy to not use tailwind, apple, photoshop, or openai. It's really easy to stay off of social networks. Computers are smaller/easier to move so lan parties are easier (although as a real adult with a real job they're harder to pull off).
The world war 3 bits suck, i'll admit, but most of the "early internet" stuff that people are nostalgic about still exists, you just have to look for it.
Any tips for finding these things like communities? Seems like most communities are private now unless you know people in meat space. Living in a rural area, those opportunities are far and few between for me.
I have tried that one and it truly baffles me. If you play it you'll notice the movement of the ships is extremely smooth, vs the original where ships only rotated in increments of 45 degrees.
> openra is an online implementation of red alert 2
Are you sure? As far as I know, OpenRA is a reimplementation of the first Red Alert game, and also it's not playable in the webbrowser (which is what this post is about)
I visited this page in Firefox and was presented with a message that essentialy said (paraphrasing): "this site best viewed with browser X". Now, I'm not a professional web developer, and maybe there are legitimate reasons why this app is depending on new cutting edge browser features that aren't yet supported by Firefox, but it seems to me that this just shouldn't be a thing anymore.
You can load and get into game with Firefox, you can click the proceed anyway link at the bottom to try it, however performance is worse and some features don't work.
Namely Firefox is missing support for the `FileSystemFileHandle` locking mode which prevents multiple tabs from running (cannot share file handles), and they have a negative standards position on implementing some other parts of the File System Access API like `showDirectoryPicker()`.
"sanctioned" is the term they use to describe the relationship with us, I was just using their terminology, but yes users are allowed to use it to play on official servers.
Yeah but my port is better because it supports phones/touch and gamepads and multiplayer over UDP and has better performance and a bunch of other small details.
Until they decide, we can't know if it's illegal or not - who knows, this site might have a license.
Valve still owns the copyright to the game and just because they won't do anything now does not mean it is legal to redistribute it without their consent, especially when we know that the game is still being sold. [0]
They (Valve) reserve the right to enforce that and this site clearly does not have such a "license" and haven't disclosed as such. Why would you expect Valve to be in discussions with a 15 year old to redistribute the game for free?
So just say you do not know.
[0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/220/HalfLife_2/
I don't think the parent comment is claiming it's legal, other than the (unlikely) chance that this is licensed, just that it's up to Valve to enforce and not really our concern. A lot of cool things (like the similar https://noclip.website/) are prima facie copyright infringement.
I think we can.
Because projects like this are free publicity and don't actually compete with the product sold on Steam.
Of course, this is a lot more grey area for copyright violations etc because it's a civil matter.
An action can clearly be a crime, but it might be unclear if you did that action.
See my upthread comment: "Innocent until proven guilty" is catchy but false.
Pithy but untrue. The verbose-but-correct statement is about procedural prerequisites: Government officials are forbidden to imprison or fine you until your guilt is proved, to an impartial and properly-instructed jury in a fair trial, beyond a reasonable doubt. (The Scots have the better formulation for criminal cases: Guilty, or not proved.)
Illustration: OJ Simpson was found not guilty [sic] in his criminal trial. So he couldn't be imprisoned. But then a different jury found — under the lower, preponderance of the evidence standard — that Simpson did indeed murder his ex-wife and the other guy. The latter case was the civil action for wrongful death, brought by the survivors of his victims. The survivors won a $33.5M verdict. Simpson's assets were seized, and sold at a court-ordered auction, to pay the judgment — including his Heisman Trophy.
(In Simpson’s second trial, the jury found him liable, not “guilty.” Guilt is the term used in criminal prosecutions. Liability is the term used in civil cases.)
Is it technically illegal? Yeah, but Valve isn't losing out on any money, and there's no way they're going to risk the negative PR blowback they'd get for a takedown.
Besides, IP law is dead. The rise of AI made it pretty clear that you can steal literally anything without consequences.
God, AI keeps making life better than I could've ever imagined!
Obviously. But it does kill the usual "piracy is bad because companies lose money" argument - especially for a 22-year-old game.
> Source available is not the same as open source.
Obviously. But it does show that Valve is more interested in preserving old genre-defying games for the general public, rather than milking every last cent of revenue out of it.
So that makes it okay to pirate and steal games developed by your fellow indie game developers as well?
> Besides, IP law is dead. The rise of AI made it pretty clear that you can steal literally anything without consequences.
Try doing the same thing to Nintendo.
Even large companies like Anthropic were not going to risk going to trial and getting bankrupted of over $120B+ in damages in using pirated copyrighted eBooks for training. The best case was a settlement for $1.5B which that is a record settlement in copyright law.
Hard times at Valve, I suppose they’ll have to find more children to start gambling with them.
Text is notorious for not conveying context. Sarcasm can easily be seen as serious by some people, why is why we have the /s notation to make it obvious.
People aren't idiots, they come from different backgrounds, locations, languages, and all use English as a common tongue. Have some consideration and stop thinking you are so big and clever.
Is it kind of a reverse Poe's Law?
Poe's law exists but I'd rather pull up in discussion and intellect because I want to believe that people are smarter than we assume they are, in this day and age.
If you want these kinds of things to stay up long enough for many people to see/use them you have to work around the legal limitations (regardless of whether they make ethical sense). Most commonly, make the site apply as a diff to the original content/assets the user provides.
That's why corporations can get away with everything.
Single threaded audio is a big concern. I haven't implemented music in my game yet to know if it is a deal breaker.
The main problem that I have run into is shader compilation stutters on the compatibility render. Makes the game basically unplayable. My work around was to spawn certain objects on the main menu out of sight to force compilation. I believe the forward renderer has some pre-compilation.
I might state the obvious here, but static typing, null-safety, being able to refactor and such things make C# much much better for bigger games. Slay the Spire 2 has been made with Godot + C# and people have already decompiled and peeked under the hood (for example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB4-W9L4ec) and imo it shows quite well how certain patterns simply require a more powerful language than GDScript or would at least be very painful and fragile to make in GDScript.
Your workaround for shader stuttering sounds quite hilarious :D I don't mean it's bad. It seems pragmatic in a good sense. But yeah, it's those limitations that pile up when making Godot target the web...
the worst part is theres no defined build step so `@tool` scripts run both in the editor and at export time. its easy to accidentally crash the editor or mess up your scene with a bad editor script missing one line of code. and as far as i remember its impossible to undo so remember to save often.
godot is still the best option if you want a open source engine for your game but only because bevy is not production ready yet.
Godot 4.x migrated to CoreCLR since Mono is a dead end, but Microsoft insists on .NET being the entrypoint in a WASM build. MS initially promised support for .NET being invoked by something else but dropped the feature, leaving Godot stranded. The current proposal is to make Godot a library (libgodot) invoked by .NET.
And Unreal Tournament: https://dos.zone/mp/?lobby=ut
There's also https://noclip.website/ which, while not playable, has hundreds of levels from dozens of older games that you can explore freely. Including Half-Life 2, with more accurate rendering than this web port (which seems to be missing many shaders including character eyes).
https://eikehein.com/stuff/sabatu
Fan remake of the levels to avoid asset copy, but it's a downstream of the original engine (and loads the original level files just fine), so the real game.
Interestingly, these Wasm ports are all about nostalgia games.
I sort-of wish we would live in 1998 (when HL1 was released). Less social network, a more creative internet, LAN parties, IRC / ICQ, easier new connections.
We now have tailwind / material UI, a locked-down Apple ecosystem, Photoshop with millions of nagging screens, centralized mega-corps like OpenAI, and the first bits of World War 3 where drones and robotics are made to kill people.
Misses a lot this free internet (though 1 USD / minute)
The world war 3 bits suck, i'll admit, but most of the "early internet" stuff that people are nostalgic about still exists, you just have to look for it.
Any tips for finding these things like communities? Seems like most communities are private now unless you know people in meat space. Living in a rural area, those opportunities are far and few between for me.
It's a bit janky owing to the vibe coding, but the basic functionality works pretty well. You need the original game data files to use it.
https://wasm.continuation-labs.com/d3demo/
I wonder how they did this.
Are you sure? As far as I know, OpenRA is a reimplementation of the first Red Alert game, and also it's not playable in the webbrowser (which is what this post is about)
https://retail.classicuo.org/
Mozilla hates the FS api, it's existed for years but seemingly isn't going to happen in Firefox.
Namely Firefox is missing support for the `FileSystemFileHandle` locking mode which prevents multiple tabs from running (cannot share file handles), and they have a negative standards position on implementing some other parts of the File System Access API like `showDirectoryPicker()`.
Oh you mean it is or isn't approved.
https://uo.com/wiki/classicuo-web-client/