This is insanely cool, the noise they make is also really satisfying!
What was the cost/time breakdown of the entire project because the flipdisc prices are hidden behind quotes and it seems like it would take quite a lot of time to complete the whole display!
The whole mechanism looks very 3d printable... I wonder if one could design one with PCB coils and a large 3d print only? If so, cost could probably come down to cents per pixel...
You'd probably also need a single 'C' shaped piece of steel for the magnetic flux path, but you might be able to find a supplier for the right shape already used for something else you can buy in large quantities very cheaply (eg. Steel staples).
I bought a flip dot display on eBay and now I am stuck with the old thing and my lack of knowledge to make it work. Here's a great resource about technical details (only German though) https://radow.org/flip-dot.php
EDIT: "They have high readability, a long lifespan, and achieves anywhere between 25-60fps" - I think you can't achieve 60fps with a flip dot display.
Depends how much power and noise you're willing for it to make!!
Remember that texas instruments DLP technology which is in use in pretty much every office/home cinema projector is effectively micro flip-dots micromachined in silicon, and that can operate at ~10,000 FPS.
They can't if they are wired like they usually are from the factory, because they are wired in a matrix where you can only update one row at a time. They did this to save on IO lines/output transistors, I guess. So you have to wait for the whole screen to finish drawing before beginning the next frame.
But you can flip them fast/in parallel if you have a driver for each disc:
I've been working on one and I have and I am trying to use an H-bridge per disc. It's possible to find very cheap ICs; for my 308 discs, it only cost $10 for these (not counting the additional time/costs that comes with coming up with 616 IO lines, getting a PCB made, dealing with power issues, etc):
They've been slowly replacing the flip-disc displays on the buses where I live with LEDs and LCD panels which has been such a shame. There is a beautiful mechanical satisfaction to a panel of flip-discs inverting and I genuinely find them easier to read.
Yes, even the ones that have an LED behind each disk which are on in the dark. This display [1] is the same but in the dark [2] you see the LEDs instead.
The LED / LCD displays are probably lighter (less heavy), and someone figured they can save 0.001 gallons of diesel a year fleet wide if they replace displays.
You've confabulated a reason why they replaced them, linked it to initiative then complained about them doing it all in two sentences. A gold medal in mental gymnastics is warranted here!
The old panels had diode issues. It wasn’t the mechanism failing — the simplicity of electromagnets means they last an insanely long time, significantly longer than an LED. The diodes were just cheap and undersized. If you have a stuck disc on an old board, 99% chance you just need to replace the diode. If it still flips but gets stuck on one side, a pin has gotten sticky and needs graphite applied.
The Luminator MAX 3000 is an interesting hybrid between a flip dot display and an LED display. I find it very pleasing to the eye and easy to read, particularly at night.
In front of the flip dots is a frame that has a mini-LED that faces and front-lights each flip dot. This gives the appearance that each flip dot is glowing.
That seems weird. Bad Apple is up there with doom in terms of "make it run", and a few high profile-ish hackers seem to enjoy touhou stuff (drew devault off the top of my head)
There’s a very large one of these at “Climate Pledge Arena” in Seattle. Perhaps 8 feet tall and 16 feet wide. Pretty cool, but stuck pixels are even more annoying when it makes you want to reach out and poke them.
I use quotes because it will always be the Colosseum to me, where I saw the Butthole Surfers, Dead Moon and Nirvana. Don’t get me started on the Kingdome.
I have a question about those wire ferrules they said they were using:
I occasionally connect wires to terminals, but - I've never used ferrules: I just self-twist the thin strands, push the thing in, and use the lever or tightening screw depending on the terminal's mechanism.
Why would I use a ferrule? Or perhaps, under what circumstances is that advised?
The wire will crush over time and the connection will become looser. That will increase the resistance of the connection and in high current applications will cause heating. If you're really unlucky it will cause a fire.
There is a fairly impressive installation of these at Heathrow airport in Terminal 5 outside the BA lounges. Struggling to find a decent video on YouTube, but this one’s not terrible https://youtu.be/G03WA30yFMI?si=hx5aLlrj_BH21yr2
I remember seeing those at the airport when I was a kid it was fascinating, one of the screens was close to the ground and I got over the chairs just curious how do they flip, now we have the boring soulless LEDs.
> "Oceans" is a kinetic sculpture that embodies the dynamism of the world's oceans within the arid landscape of Las Vegas. Crafted from 483 motorized elements known as "Brixels," this piece mimics the movement of the sea's surface. The sculpture is alive with the pulse of the planet's waters, ...
BREAKFAST (AKA Zolty) here. The “ocean” aspect of the piece is in how it moves and the real-time API data that drives the wave-like motion. It grabs live tide data from a different coastal city each minute and changes based on that. The gold and marble bricks took inspiration from the Fontainebleau art deco style of their original Miami hotel (this piece lives in their Vegas location).
Can someone explain the “Fontainebleau art deco style”? I have been to Fountainbleau and I remember it as much older renaissance style architecture and geometric/baroque gardens.
Sorry, I was half joking, half of me gets the metaphor, but the other me is seeing a wall of bricks of gold in a Las Vegas casino and gets another metaphor.
If you're into electromechanical machines, he also has a working telephone exchange and a bunch of videos where he restores its various components and explains how it works (I still don't quite understand how it works though). That's the original reason I subscribed to his channel, but his wild musical contraptions are also cool.
It is so sad to see both this and the title "It's ok to abandon your side project" on the front page while I have three flipdisc displays sitting in the basement without the time and equipment to get them up and running.
No, it's not ok to abandon those flipdisc displays! :(
Admittedly I read neither of the articles. But who doesn't sometimes get caught up in the conincidence of titles on here may vote me down :D
It's crazy that I was trying to find good resources for split flaps and then flip discs just yesterday and was just thinking, damn, there aren't any good or recent information about flip discs, just decade-old proprietary stuff to be found
Great work!
If I’m not mistaken (their pricing is a bit hard to find), nine of the flip fits display modules will set you back ~$5000 alone, plus the rest of the hardware. While I love the idea that is a lot of fun budget for other projects…
Thanks, I've been looking for that. Interesting how nowadays it's orders of magnitude cheaper to buy a 4k 65" panel and fake the dots (and sound) on it.
I love physical displays like this, or split flaps. Anything that is not a screen, and keeps it's display without power. I keep getting ads for vesta boards, but I just can't justify the expense.
I have notebook from ~15 years ago full of pie-in-the-sky ideas for different types of displays. This was before I got a job that took up all of my attention span.
I think a missed opportunity on the website would be to have a flip button to change the colors pallete too!
White background black text and flip back to the current one!
Crazy seeing this posted today. I learned about flipdiscs from ChatGPT just a few hours ago because I'm trying to find a text display type you could build or at least repair yourself. Don't need much just ASCII with enough lines for running commands and output.
I think flipdiscs would be too expensive. Honestly a teletypewriter might be the most realistic, but wastes a lot of paper.
What was the cost/time breakdown of the entire project because the flipdisc prices are hidden behind quotes and it seems like it would take quite a lot of time to complete the whole display!
Similar to all the ePaper projects that show up here, they’re expensive but cool gimmicks.
The whole mechanism looks very 3d printable... I wonder if one could design one with PCB coils and a large 3d print only? If so, cost could probably come down to cents per pixel...
You'd probably also need a single 'C' shaped piece of steel for the magnetic flux path, but you might be able to find a supplier for the right shape already used for something else you can buy in large quantities very cheaply (eg. Steel staples).
I wonder if anyone makes cheaper versions that you're only supposed to update at 1 frame per minute or less...
EDIT: "They have high readability, a long lifespan, and achieves anywhere between 25-60fps" - I think you can't achieve 60fps with a flip dot display.
Remember that texas instruments DLP technology which is in use in pretty much every office/home cinema projector is effectively micro flip-dots micromachined in silicon, and that can operate at ~10,000 FPS.
EDIT: also when you google a bit you can find a guy who maxed out flip dot displays at 30fps (which honestly I thought would not be possible either)
But you can flip them fast/in parallel if you have a driver for each disc:
https://pierremuth.wordpress.com/2021/02/17/flipping-dots-fa...
I've been working on one and I have and I am trying to use an H-bridge per disc. It's possible to find very cheap ICs; for my 308 discs, it only cost $10 for these (not counting the additional time/costs that comes with coming up with 616 IO lines, getting a PCB made, dealing with power issues, etc):
https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/C5795599.html
[2] https://www.urban-transport-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/...
[1] https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/2padXosoqh99o13dcrN3co.jpg
Net Zero Fatigue is real.
You’re not doing your cause any favors by projecting everything on an ill-fitting frame.
The old panels had diode issues. It wasn’t the mechanism failing — the simplicity of electromagnets means they last an insanely long time, significantly longer than an LED. The diodes were just cheap and undersized. If you have a stuck disc on an old board, 99% chance you just need to replace the diode. If it still flips but gets stuck on one side, a pin has gotten sticky and needs graphite applied.
In front of the flip dots is a frame that has a mini-LED that faces and front-lights each flip dot. This gives the appearance that each flip dot is glowing.
(1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ru1DSs1tjQ
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtutLA63Cp8
Niche indeed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6rfI28zJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSdiop75jIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQVp-srqRBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJU2-1X8kHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiFSnoJQU7I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWIKOjGXTEM
I use quotes because it will always be the Colosseum to me, where I saw the Butthole Surfers, Dead Moon and Nirvana. Don’t get me started on the Kingdome.
https://github.com/simpsoka/office-flipdisc/blob/main/scenes...
Still, I wanna see and hear it on the display.
I occasionally connect wires to terminals, but - I've never used ferrules: I just self-twist the thin strands, push the thing in, and use the lever or tightening screw depending on the terminal's mechanism.
Why would I use a ferrule? Or perhaps, under what circumstances is that advised?
PS - Link to the ferrules they mentioned: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R6QQ7MW/
Ferrules also evenly distribute the clamping force and prevent crushing of the strands.
Ferrules solve the problem of having to align the threads every time you re-post them in a terminal block.
https://www.pippakelmenson.com/work/climate-pledge-arena
https://www.coleorloff.com/specifically/pitchbook
https://www.behance.net/gallery/136172923/Climate-Pledge-Are...
must be vrey annoying very fast if you have to sit next to it all day
Just one example: https://theartistbreakfast.com/works/traverse
Also created a larger more sculpted derivative the „brixel“ a rotating brick as pixel. Eg https://theartistbreakfast.com/works/oceans
Last I heard a number of years ago it’s around $2000/sq ft. Around the same price scale as mid range LED wall modules.
All I can see are bars of gold.
Here’s a clip of it moving (doesn’t read so well as a static image): https://theartistbreakfast.com/works/oceans
Sorry, I was half joking, half of me gets the metaphor, but the other me is seeing a wall of bricks of gold in a Las Vegas casino and gets another metaphor.
Either way it's beautiful!
It would be interesting to see if you could run a pared-down version of that game on a display like this.
See on YouTube or visit in person
No, it's not ok to abandon those flipdisc displays! :(
Admittedly I read neither of the articles. But who doesn't sometimes get caught up in the conincidence of titles on here may vote me down :D
Nobody outside a gas station wants a glowy hole.
I have notebook from ~15 years ago full of pie-in-the-sky ideas for different types of displays. This was before I got a job that took up all of my attention span.
Very cool project!
I think flipdiscs would be too expensive. Honestly a teletypewriter might be the most realistic, but wastes a lot of paper.
Any other suggestions?